Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Putin highlights cruelty of letting children believe they can change sex.

46 replies

MothsAreSadButterflies · 23/10/2021 18:51

Strange times when Vlad is making more sense than our own leader.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/putin-gender-fluidity-cancel-culture-b1943544.html

OP posts:
ItsLateHumpty · 24/10/2021 02:23

[quote Highwind]Reposting this for anyone who is confused about what sex is or is under the impression that sex is a spectrum.

theparadoxinstitute.com/blog/2021/04/10/what-are-sexes/[/quote]
That was really interesting, and for a non academic, non biologist an easy and clear read - thanks for sharing.

Kanaloa · 24/10/2021 02:57

Bit scary to agree with Putin but at the same time he’s just stating facts. If Kim Jong-Un said ‘dogs and cats are different animals’ then I would need to agree with him despite disagreeing with lots of other things he says.

Kanaloa · 24/10/2021 03:00

Bit worrying that anyone thinks sex is a spectrum though. I’m confused as to what someone would mean by that. My understanding of sex is that there are two.

Whereas a spectrum is different. So at my son’s autism group we often hear ‘autism is a huge spectrum’ to illustrate the fact that some kids my son’s age are still in nappies, can’t speak etc while he can speak and toilet himself but has other difficulties. Whereas sex, I’m not sure how it can be a spectrum? You can’t be ‘mostly female.’ You’re either one or the other one.

XiXimXerJinping · 24/10/2021 03:42

Putin is allowed to say what most Western leaders are thinking but under intense pressure not to say: material reality.

Fukuraptor · 24/10/2021 03:43

@MishyJDI

Needmoresleep . Lols. That is a boring question.

Sex has to do with chromosones. Gender is more complex. Sex alone is more complex then pure X & Y. There really is a spectrum involved, and it has always been there. Dinosaurs looking to the past, well, end up as bones. Meanwhile the rest of society and science is seeing human biology as more complex then A and B.

Do you not think all humans end up as bones, no matter how enlightened their opinions? As well as believing that people can change biological sex?

There must have been some astounding breakthroughs in biology this week, I haven't kept up with the news. Blush

Unlike Putin, I think you should be free to dress however you like, love and have sex with consenting adults of either sex, call yourself what you please etc. In day to day life, whether you present yourself in a masculine, feminine or androgynous manner shouldn't matter at all.

But, there are circumstances where sex matters - changing rooms, prisons, intimate healthcare, refuges, sports, awards and female support groups etc and we are not bigots or akin to dictators, for pointing that out.

OperationDessertStorm · 24/10/2021 04:00

@MrsMadderRose

Sex isn’t a spectrum, but even if it was, why would that mean you can decide you’re somewhere on the spectrum that you are not? Race is a spectrum, but do you think that means if you are white you can just decide you’re black? And that you should be given free medication to change your skin colour and other cosmetic effects? And that as these are aspects of what we call race, you have actually changed race and people who don’t think so just don’t understand modern science?
This. I’m not opposed to the idea that sex is a spectrum but I’m baffled by a spectrum whereby you can choose where you are based on an internal sense of identity (and that can change day to day) and that you can’t compare to anything fixed.
MultiStorey · 24/10/2021 07:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LastSummerHere · 24/10/2021 07:43

i can never understand why they aren't embarrassed at the whole 'sex is a spectrum' shit. And they never explain what creepy men who get a sexual thrill from dressing in lingerie and entering women's spaces have to do with people with DSDs anyway.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 24/10/2021 07:48

extract

So that’s my quarter-through-the-year resolution: I’m not going to debate with you about the reality of biological sex, for the same reason I wouldn’t stand on the train platform debating the finer points of physics while the man on the tracks gets ground into meat. That might sound a little dramatic, a flourish of rhetoric to cover up a weak rebuttal. But how long have you spent reading up to this point? Five minutes? Ten? Then the world has fifty more mutilated girls than when you started. Were the men who carried out those mutilations confused about what makes a female body? Did they ponder chromosome parings and standard deviations when they chose who to cut? Or is that kind of nuance a luxury set aside just for educated, progressive, worldly men like you?

Isn’t it odd that sex was never so complicated before? There was nothing ethereal about our biology when it came to allocating the right to vote, or own property, or walk down the street at night without fear. We knew perfectly well what made someone female when that female-ness guaranteed a life of subservience and pain. Only when women began to say no did their bodies become a concept. So many feminists have made this point, over and over again. I see them say it. I know you read it. Did you listen? If not, why? And why do you always respond when I say it? It seems you do know who has a female body, when it comes to decide which perspective is ignored.

Sex is such a mystery to you when women want shelters for themselves, meetings for themselves, words for themselves. Pardon me for asking, but is it equally mysterious when you log off Twitter and move over to Pornhub? The true nature of a female body is so complex when you lecture. Does it become simple again when you masturbate? Who does the laundry in your house? Were you somehow able to navigate an inchoate soup of X’s and Y’s to saddle your girlfriend with the dishes? Give yourself some credit — I think you know perfectly well what a female body is. But in case you don’t, here’s a hint:

It’s the only type of body that gets you thrown on the funeral pyre when the husband dies. It’s the only type of body that gets your feet bound and your breasts ironed. It’s the only type made pregnant through rape and burned with acid, the only type expected to sit quietly and listen while we redefine it away, the only type men have spent millennia criticizing and critiquing and buying and selling until the moment we decided we couldn’t figure out what the fuck it even means.

You know what a female body is, dude? It’s the only type of body that makes men like you ask such stupid questions. So please, stop. This is an emergency. This is three and a half billion human beings tied to the tracks, and you’re riding on the train. Your insistence on nuance, your fetish for accuracy, your smug deconstruction of common sense — it doesn’t make you thoughtful. It doesn’t make you wise. It doesn’t make you progressive. It makes you an asshole. It makes you worse than a bystander. A bystander does nothing. He watches from afar. You step into the fray just to prod the victim. I’m not going to step in too, laying out my rebuttal over the screams. It’s just not worth it.

Here’s my resolution: As long as pimps, priests, and politicians know what a female body is, I do too. The momentthey’reconfused — the moment they hesitate, the moment they qualify, the moment they adopt the restraint and caution you demand from the targets of their abuse— then I’ll happily open myself up to ambiguity. Until then, I beg you. Reserve your philosopher’s curiosity, your scientific rigor, for the ten thousand other questions thatdon’tmake a thought experiment out of an atrocity. What marks the division between knowledge and belief? How did life develop from non-life? At what point does a man losing his hair become bald and not merely thinning? Go tweet at Rogaine and get their thoughts on that conundrum. Leave rape crisis centers alone

From genderarguments.com/openletterbiologicalsex/

334bu · 24/10/2021 07:48

Mishy seems to be as confused about sex as they are about crime statistics. They seem to think that 1sex+1 sex equals a spectrum of sexes and that 99%of all offenders is exactly the same as 1%.

BatmansBat · 24/10/2021 07:52

Sex as a spectrum?

I thought sex mad mainly how the body was arranged around producing either large, immobile gametes (women) or small mobile gametes (men)? And where the producer of the large, immobile gamete gets pregnant?

If sex is a spectrum, we should see at least a few transwomen able to give birth without medical intervention, shouldn’t we?

Actually, transwomen could also be presumed to be candidates for surrogacy and tested to see if they would be able to carry a child? If sex is a spectrum?

If not, maybe it is less of a spectrum?

Soontobe60 · 24/10/2021 08:06

@MishyJDI

Needmoresleep . Lols. That is a boring question.

Sex has to do with chromosones. Gender is more complex. Sex alone is more complex then pure X & Y. There really is a spectrum involved, and it has always been there. Dinosaurs looking to the past, well, end up as bones. Meanwhile the rest of society and science is seeing human biology as more complex then A and B.

You really are stupid aren’t you? It’s CHROMOSOMES, not chromosones. Gender is made up woowoo. Of course human biology is more complex than (not ‘then’) A and B, but it still doesn’t mean that anyone, worldwide, has actually managed to change their sex. As a result of that precise complexity, it would mean that they would have to have every cell in their bodies changed so that the sex chromosome, match the sex they ‘want’ to be.
Needmoresleep · 24/10/2021 08:08

I think that the ‘sex is a spectrum’ line, using DSDs/intersex conditions is offensive. The clue is in the word ‘disorder’. These are medical conditions.

A friend’s daughter in law has a DSD, a chromosome issue, which leaves her not just without fertility but with a raft of health problems including a serious heart condition, and a childhood in and out of hospital.

Just because there are extremely rare occasions, actually disorders, where chromosomes do not fit the binary, does not give Mishy the evidence to assert that sex is a spectrum. There are a range of DSDs but each is specific. Where else would it be acceptable for one group to hijack a chronic health condition for their own ends?

Perhaps Mishy considers facts boring?

OhHolyJesus · 24/10/2021 08:16

Dinosaurs looking to the past, well, end up as bones.

Dinosaurs ruled the earthed and their fossils have provided the world with energy for decades.

That's why it's called Fossil Fuel.

Dinosaurs were either male or female, like humans and we all end up as bones eventually Hmm

Deliriumoftheendless · 24/10/2021 08:30

Mishy seems to be as confused about sex as they are about crime statistics.
Mishy also seems to be confused about mortality tbf.

Maybe they’re a Highlander.

Babdoc · 24/10/2021 08:35

Mishy seems very slow on the uptake, repeatedly trotting out the same debunked arguments.
As a doctor, may I assure Mishy that there is no “intersex”. They are men and women who have specific disorders of their sexual development. But they are ALL categorically either male or female. Because sex is NOT a spectrum - it is binary.

BlueBrush · 24/10/2021 09:04

Too right @OhHolyJesus. All this maligning of dinosaurs and bones... Anyway, fun fact - paleontologists think they can tell whether a dinosaur skeleton is from a female because of a particular type of bone tissue laid down when her body is preparing to make eggshells.
[Disclaimer - but males might do it this too in certain ircumstances.]
[Unfortunately Necessary Additional Disclaimer - and no that doesn't mean sex is a spectrum.]

www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/how-to-sex-a-dinosaur.html

OhHolyJesus · 24/10/2021 09:25

Maybe they’re a Highlander.

Maybe it's David Lammy (and I'm Priti Patel), who knows.

I think we can be safe in the knowledge that when women dress up in blow up dinosaurs they aren't actual dinosaurs, they don't think or feel like dinosaurs and the women wearing the costumes aren't engaging in cosplay and aren't preparing to re-enact Jurassic Park 2. 🎬

MrsMadderRose · 24/10/2021 11:46

Also if having a DSD put you on a “spectrum” of sex, does that means ok to identify as having a specific DSD when you don’t? Because that would seem to be pretty offensive, but it’s OK to identify as somewhere on the other end of the “spectrum”? It makes no sense.

Mushy if you’re going to sigh and dismiss our stupidity, you need to explain and defend your position, so can you answer this and also my point about race. If sex is a spectrum, why does the much more varied and graduated spectrum of race/ethnicity not make it OK to identify as a different race? Or do you think that is OK?

MrsMadderRose · 24/10/2021 11:47

mishy sorry - autocorrect

ScreamingMeMeSawUs · 24/10/2021 12:24

Well I know that my old dinosaur bones would tell the world that I was of the female sex, and absolutely fuck all about whether I had a gender identity, let alone what that was.

And human sex is NOT complicated. I can't believe you still think DSDs are some kind of gotcha, Mishy Hmm

New posts on this thread. Refresh page