Margaret Atwood

[MummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking]

twitter.com/MargaretAtwood/status/1450429768067846145?t=8q-A8MlvzZsx6pt4Vu1_LA&s=19

Has retweeted an article from the Toronto Star "why can't we say woman anymore" and bloody hell are they coming for the latest witch burning in the comments!

Ranging from disappointment to the usual sweary abuse. I thought oh how long till the capitulation begins, turns out I didn't have to wait long!

She's following it up with retweets about 'we can say people when it's accurate and inclusive' and then defending the article because the writer isn't "a terf"???

Not really sure what she's trying to achieve here, anyone?

@FindTheTruth

she's at the stage where she thinks she's the first person to put forward a reasonable argument and if only other women had been less mean and bigoted we'd have got our points across and solved all this. I don't think she's quite reached the stage where she realises that anyone who dares speak up, no matter how reasonably and kindly, will be labelled a witch and burned at the stake.

Yup, this is what's happening to individuals constantly, snowballing into swathes of populations.

It's a shame that no North American publishers would publish Helen Joyce's book. Atwood would still benefit from reading Joyce's book even if it is UK-centric. MA would also learn something from a chat with her or watching one of the many chats/interviews she's done.

I wonder what it would take for MA to want to phone JKR?

I think we're still a long way off that. She's still desperately trying to distance herself from the ones she's been told are evil

I wonder what will happen when she realises that most of the people she's been told are terfs are in fact the middle ground.

She's deviated from the orthodoxy now, there will be no redemption. She'll realise soon enough that even what she deems as a moderate middle ground is under attack.

She's recommending Shon Faye's book but not Joyce's... hmm

@MedusasBadHairDay

I think we're still a long way off that. She's still desperately trying to distance herself from the ones she's been told are evil

She has a journey ahead of her but absent a grovelling self-abasement session and re-education there is no redemption on offer from a particular community.

Atwood has an opportunity to be a cooler within her own community. She's already done it to some extent.

She's probably not in a place where she would accept more than tokens of support on offer from those whom she disdains. But, it would still serve her well to read Joyce and consider what it is that she would reject.

It strikes me that she's still only operating / reading within an echo chamber.

I'm starting to find this quite upsetting. Atwood cringing and groveling for scraps from TRAs, desperate to please and appease them. She's an 80 year old women, one of the world's most successful writers, and if anyone has earned the right to her voice, it's she. So why is she acting like a dog that's being kicked?

I know why. It's because TRAs are abusing and gaslighting her. And she has isolated herself from the women who want to support her. It is just horrible to see.

It's because TRAs are abusing and gaslighting her. And she has isolated herself from the women who want to support her. It is just horrible to see.

Do you think she's using a blocker so literally can't see the supportive comments?

But, the other issue is that it's difficult to support someone with whom you have no overlap (e.g., culture, faith, an occupation or activity). Atwood is isolated from fellow successful writers like JKR with whom she has that activity in common.

Ah yes, she may be using a blocker.

Good point too about the other writers. She won't be getting any support from them. If anything, the opposite. They'll be part of the pile on (as she was for JKR).

She's a lost cause, sorry.

Please don’t eat me! Please don’t eat me!

I think she needs to get off twitter, reach out to feminists and listen.

@ThumbWitchesAbroad

She's a lost cause, sorry.

I don't read that the same way. She seems to be surprised that other people aren't accepting her own assessment of her allyship, possibly because, in Vaclav Havel terms, she didn't understand quite what it was she was abdicating by signing up to the ideology.

I can't imagine what it is like in a country that doesn't report on trans issues. We have the Daily Mail, the Telegraph, and the Times, all alerting people to the problems. You can't fail to be aware of the negative implications. So much so that quite a few btl comments are along the lines of stop shoving this down our throats.

But yes, I agree that the abuse of an 80-year-old woman for asking questions is absolutely disgusting.

The only possible upside is if it gives her pause for thought. But even then, she's going to get absolutely targeted.

The Canadian authorities should be waking up to the maliciousness and violence behind this.

I don't think I can feel so lenient. She's active online. No matter where she lives or what her age is, she has no excuse whatsoever for buying into uncritical "terfs vs trans" stuff.

She joined the mob against JK Rowling which says it all: Jo's letter could not have been more reasonable or spelled out the issues any simpler.

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus - that's just one example. If you go on her Twitter thread, you will see numerous other appeasements, including her promoting Shon Faye's book.
She is not standing for women.

The address is still up there. I feel a bit sick that someone thought this was a good idea and that Twitter are doing nothing about it.

If she's not using an online blocker she's relying on a mental one. It helps keep the cognitive dissonance at bay.

Talking of poetry, Martin Niemoller wrote a certain poem she might be about to feel the weight of.

She should quit trying to appease them. She's tarnished with the taint of TERFdom now in their eyes.

You know what Stalin did with those whom he considered ideologically suspect, including Red Army soldiers who had been POWs and therefore possibly exposed to enemy propaganda? Straight to the GULAG to die.

She is about to enjoy her very own denouncement and Siberian exile.

[quote ThumbWitchesAbroad]@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus - that's just one example. If you go on her Twitter thread, you will see numerous other appeasements, including her promoting Shon Faye's book.
She is not standing for women.[/quote]
I know she isn't. That's the value of a cooler, they're in different communities.

She won't become GC (certainly not in the short to medium term). Nonetheless, seeing what has happened to her may well be instructive for people in her communities.

Ah, got you. Yes, it will be interesting. She's trying VERY hard to appease at the moment, including by promoting Shon Faye's book.
It will be interesting.

I've followed a few of these struggle sessions in the past, and in my experience the TRAS are never bright enough to know when to just let it go. They are strikingly binary in this regard. You either agree 100%, or stay silent about disagreement, and are on team trans or you disagree about even the tiniest thing and that puts you on team TERF. Atwood seems to have genuine questions and points of disagreement, but thinks this is still compatible with her being on team trans. So long as she keeps asking questions or disagreeing she will never be accepted as part of team trans. Which is nuts, of course, but that's the way it is.

So long as she keeps asking questions or disagreeing she will never be accepted as part of team trans.

Even if she recants (motherfucker) she will never be accepted again. She is now impure. There is no redemption.

Last night, she was claiming not to know what GC stood for, so not sure how much time she actually spends online.

Lots of men support trans rights without being misogynist. (Now I will have to look up GC.)

twitter.com/MargaretAtwood/status/1452099586781335555?t=5lDeVTBX9NDZokYpLW4h7Q&s=19