Radio 4 now

[BoreOfWhabylon]

Today prog - Nolan talk about the podcast

Spelling it out!

"The word Mother being removed from maternity policy"

BBC workplace equality index

This is fantastic!

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0010ncj

From 0840 am

Missed the start but glad somebody has started a thread!

Nick Robinson comment at the end: “those of us who work at the BBC, we don’t run it we just work for it”. Hmm.

Missed start. Will go back and listen. What I heard was enlightening.

Nick Robinson has just said the podcast is fascinating and reminded listeners that people working for the BBC don't necessarily agree with it.

Nolan has really thrown down the gauntlet to Stonewall and the BBC.

What an interesting piece for the BBC to include in one of their flagship programmes!

Good offer from Nolan and Thompson to keeping an open invitation to Stonewall to contribute and they'll create an additional, separate programme for them and add it to the series.

Clear that their concern wasn't so much stonewall but the public bodies who took wholesale advice unquestionably without consulting any other bodies.

Scottish government particularly awful.

This is what I wrote on the main thread:

Nolan and Thompson were just interviewed on the Today programme. They got a fair amount of headwind from Mishal Husain and struggled to convey their message in terms of the facts in such a short segment. She didn't seem that interested in the issues of partiality. I couldn't figure out whether she was doing Devil's Advocate or if she views Stonewall simply as part of the furniture at the BBC.

The response on twitter was "bigots" and "Irish bigots" in the main.

Interesting that BBC couldn't or wouldn't identify other organisations to get guidance from .. Stonewall have the monopoly on T victimisation and the money that comes with ...

Today has been excellent in recent times, actually trying to get answers from politicians and others. Especially good on what is a woman. I would really like to see them looking at males in women’s prisons.

Oh, they got so much into a short slot! This will have had a massive audience who now know that the BBC, like so many organisations, has changed the definition of homosexuality from same sex to same gender attraction at Stonewall's behest.

I hope Woman's Hour will pick this up

I just came on to post about that comment by Nick Robinson too. "We don't run it, we just work for it". It highlights the courage of Nolan and Thompson to me, but clear indicator that other journalists see an issue -- it was a distancing comment for sure.

@nauticant I do think Mishal Hussein was playing Devil's advocate.

Nick Robinson and Justin Webb have both been very good at covering the topic (as much as they were able). The women on the programme have steered clear, but possibly because they know they will receive far more vitriol than men do.

I wouldn’t read too much into Mishal Hussein’s questions. The BBC’s impartiality policy means that an opposing view has to be presented/people have to be challenged.

Shame they did not apply that internally with Stonewall.

I had to turn the taps off to listen, that woman work washing up could wait! I missed the beginning but what I heard was excellent

Devil's Advocate would be my view too but I felt in running the interview in that way served to obscure what the podcasts were revealing. I would have preferred for her first instinct to have been "has something interesting being revealed here in which case it should be shared with the audience" rather than going after Nolan and Thompson because they'd gone after Stonewall.

Mishal Husain is very definitely in the "be kind" camp.

It's hard to know what has happened with BBC news people, with regard to how their internal training has influenced their actual job performance. Do they believe what Stonewall has told them to believe? Do they really think that there is no harm being done by TRAs? Is it fear of reprisals? Fear of never being able to work again for a reputable organisation is they step out of line? Fear of the threats, which surely will disproportionately effect female journalists, as any woman saying anything in public about anything some bloke doesn't like is a target?

I'd love Nolan to do a follow up set of programmes about how the Stonewall influence has manifested outwards. Looking at current affairs programmes we have all complained about - Women's Hour, Victoria Derbyshire, Newsnight, Today et al - where there have been no women allowed to speak on the matter of the erasure of language referring to women, safeguarding etc; and to conduct research into the "no debate" stance of the TRA bodies, which has been translated into them complaining that the BBC is biased and won't let them speak, when they just refuse to turn up. How many very valid news items did not reach the airwaves? Eg, Maya's case and Women's Hour. What editorial decisions were being made to not talk about these issues and why?

I didn't feel that the segment covered the topic that well. For example, unless I missed it, they didn't really explain how Stonewall is misrepresenting the law. We have to remember that although most of us understand this stuff inside out, the average person has no idea what's going on, or what the Equality Act is, or what protected characteristics are.

Why do Stonewall wield such influence? I have never understood this.

@RoyalCorgi

I didn't feel that the segment covered the topic that well. For example, unless I missed it, they didn't really explain how Stonewall is misrepresenting the law. We have to remember that although most of us understand this stuff inside out, the average person has no idea what's going on, or what the Equality Act is, or what protected characteristics are.

They did say that SW were subtly changing the EA wording from Gender Reassignment to Gender Identity. And i think getting it in that they have changed the definition of homosexuality will definitely bring in interest from people who wouldn't have known about that.

@Mischance

Why do Stonewall wield such influence? I have never understood this.

Because they have a halo from all the outstanding work that they did achieve for LGB plus the residual guilt from Aids…

I'd love Nolan to do a follow up set of programmes about how the Stonewall influence has manifested outwards. Looking at current affairs programmes we have all complained about - Women's Hour, Victoria Derbyshire, Newsnight, Today et al - where there have been no women allowed to speak on the matter of the erasure of language referring to women, safeguarding etc; and to conduct research into the "no debate" stance of the TRA bodies, which has been translated into them complaining that the BBC is biased and won't let them speak, when they just refuse to turn up. How many very valid news items did not reach the airwaves? Eg, Maya's case and Women's Hour. What editorial decisions were being made to not talk about these issues and why?

Agree and I'd love them to interview Jenny Murray who as we know was gagged on discussing this issue.