Academic Freedom, Harassment and GC academics - ask me any questions

[ProfJoPhoenix]

Hi Mumsnetters

Jo Phoenix here - as in the academic cancelled by Essex and harassed by colleagues at the OU. I decided to join mumsnet because I know that several women here are supportive of what it is that we (GC academics) are going through and dealing with. I thought I would start a thread - a sort of ask me any question thread. I'll be making an announcement on twitter (@JoPhoenix1) on Sunday morning that you might find interesting. What's happened to Kathleen Stock has left all of us reeling and I am going to do something that, I hope, will help. Watch this space.

Can you give some examples (hypothetical since you seem to believe they don't actually exist) of what you would accept as 'evidence'? If women being raped don't count as evidence of a negative impact, what does count in your view?

Yes I'd like to know this too. What number of women would make it a problem?

Thank you for all you are doing Jo!

Sometimes I open the "derailing jar" for the derailers.
A couple of pounds per derailing post. Keep going trolls.... have dug a few times in your name already.

As you will be aware several countries have adopted gender recognition processes based on the principle of self-determination, and these have been in place for several years now for some - eg, Ireland, 2015.

Fortunately our government in the UK ran a public consultation instead of imposing this undemocratically as in the location cited.

The government took on board the results of the consultation, including the transparent attempts to manipulate the results coming from around the world, and decided to AVOID harm by not changing the GRA.

I think complaining about this to the government is your best option if you are dissatisfied with the outcomes of a public consultation.

Morning gardeners.

54K carrots. FIFTY FOUR THOUSAND! This is so very important. The more carrots we get and the quicker we get them sends a very important message to my employer. It means that they cannot frighten and sweat me out with legal fees as they will know that I have an army of gardeners behind me that will not let that happen.

I know I've been asking daily, but please, please get the message out. As many carrots as we can muster please. Let's smash the target in record time (which is a week). We are so very nearly there.

Please also take time to read the comments. There are old students of mine from 20 years ago supporting me. People from all over the world. All of your wonderful mumsnetters.

#OrderOfThePhoenix
#PhoenixRising
#DinosaurRoar

Thank you.

I will pop back regularly to give pep talks, but also, genuinely to get to know you and chat with you.

x

As I understand, new policy requires risk assessments to be developed to determine how the proposals impact on existing policy and laws, protected groups, government priorities etc and any mitigation needed. Any effort to bring in self ID will require this.

Here’s some evidence for you. If even so much as a single inmate has been raped by another inmate in a female prison, this constitutes an incalculable percentage rise, because x/0 x 100 cannot be worked out.
That’s the percentage rise. Doesn’t matter what number you put in, 1 or 1000.

Ok, so nobody is able to cite any studies achieving statistical significance demonstrating harm or negative impacts to women as a result of gender self-recognition processes put into practice in other countries?

Given that women make up about 50% of these populations and so studies could access hundreds of thousands or millions of people even very small trends should be discernible in data, shouldn't they?

Contrast that with the transgender population, where general population studies show maybe 0.1% of respondents indicate that they are transgender - making it far, far harder for studies to achieve statistical significance on issues impacting them.

But yet we do have evidence for issues and real harm impacting trans people.

Statistically significant, exceptionally well carried out research utilising a survey of nearly 300,00 households across America and nearly 500,000 individual respondents, in their National Crime Victimisation Study - which indicated that trans people are over four times more likely than non trans people to experience violent victimization, including rape, sexual assault, and aggravated or simple assault.

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ncvs-trans-press-release/

escholarship.org/uc/item/7c3704zg

I'd really like to see someone, especially Jo Phoenix, have a shot at addressing questions 1-7 I posted earlier on.

This is a thread about academic freedom, freedom of speech, and these questions are central to this theme, and whether there should ever be any limits to academic freedom for discussion, and what harms may potentially result.

Ok, so nobody is able to cite any studies achieving statistical significance demonstrating harm or negative impacts to women as a result of gender self-recognition processes put into practice in other countries?

Where do you think the data for such studies would come from?

Why are we allowing this wonderful support thread to be hijacked and diverted?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, suggestionsplease. You do seem to fall into lots of logical traps.

Your US study has significant limitations as has been discussed several times.

There is ample evidence that women have suffered negative impacts in this country, as negative things have happened to them. For you, it's quite obviously a numbers game. So how many women need to experience a negative impact for it to be significant enough for you to acknowledge there is a conflict involving female sex based spaces and services?

Why are we allowing this wonderful support thread to be hijacked and diverted?

Apologies, you make a good point.

The thread does invite questions, tbf.

I've explained that if you're asking for studies relating to a group of people you need to specify who would meet that criteria, and the questioner has repeatedly refused.
suggestions - yes or no, if the evidence of negative impact related only to peopke observed to be female at birth, would you accept that as an impact on what you describe as "women"? Or would you dismiss it as not affecting the group of people you have in mind but are unable to define?

Ok, so nobody is able to cite any studies achieving statistical significance demonstrating harm or negative impacts to women as a result of gender self-recognition processes put into practice in other countries?
So young women losing out on sports scholarships in the US doesn't bother you? Women losing spots on Olympic teams doesn't bother you? Women being raped in prison doesn't bother you? Or are these things not happening because there are no 'studies'?

Can I suggest that you trot and start your own thread? And leave this one for its intended purpose, of supporting courageous women who are not being allowed to even discuss, never mind study, the impact of trans ideology on women.

I’m still waiting for the definition of “women”. Did I miss it?

Hi all- especially you Jo,
Just been gardening and thought you’d like a few more carrots. It is an honour to support you in this struggle: the sunshine will come.

Can I suggest that you trot and start your own thread? And leave this one for its intended purpose, of supporting courageous women who are not being allowed to even discuss, never mind study, the impact of trans ideology on women

Hear, Hear!

I was thinking about this the other morning; Is this an end of civilation thing? the distress caused by societies ending/radically changing/ recources becoming less abundant, like ours enivitably will with climate change, is causeing a subconcious, incohearent rage against women, femininity, motherhood?
Bethany Hughs did a doc about the end of Minoan civilation and they destroyed all their female gods (or something like that?)
Maybe this is the same impulse?

I imagine, suggestions that as the court case is partially about Jo being compared to a racist, your questions comparing Jo to a racist might not be able to be answered publicly in case they affect the court case.

@YetAnotherSpartacus

Why are we allowing this wonderful support thread to be hijacked and diverted?

I responded to one of the PP's questions to point out that the answers to that particular question were easily found on this site. Also to supply some links for anyone else reading the thread who thought that there was no harm in other countries where there is self-ID.

Sealion ahoy.

Keep on it Jo, we're still here.

Speaking of statistics, why is it OK to endanger 50% of the population for the sake of 0.1% of the population?

I mean, it's not an argument I actually agree with but if you are so blinkered to dismiss out of hand the evidence of rape and sexual assault etc. that was linked to above and you only want to consider statistics then maybe you should think about that.

Over £55,500 carrots now. I'm sure the diversionary drivel helps in keeping this thread bumped and reminding people. And as Jo points out - the comments are so heartwarming from so many men as well as women.