AIBU to think this Home Office response is a cop out? - to "Require sex of VATP & sexual offenders be recorded throughout justice system."

[FindTheTruth]

[MN please don't move this to the petitions board].

The home office has responded to "Require sex of VATP & sexual offenders be recorded throughout justice system." They pass the buck and say it is for each individual police force to DECIDE what information to record. And cop out, saying there are ethical and logistical challenges recording biological sex.

Does the home office really believe it's logistically impossible to record the biological sex of rapists when legally Rape can only involve a penis?

And saying that biological sex was not 'defined' in the petition 🙄

I hope that more people sign this petition and that the independent petitions committee tells them to re-write their response.

Extracts from the Government response:
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The Government does not plan to require biological sex to be recorded across the criminal justice system

It is for each individual police force to decide what information to record.

Officials have noted that ‘biological sex’ has not been defined in the petition. If ‘biological sex’ is defined in terms of anatomy, or chromosomes, then there would be both ethical and logistical challenges

it would not be appropriate for the police or HMPPS to physically examine every suspect/prisoner in order to determine ‘biological sex’

there are no plans for the police or HMPPS to record the biological sex of prisoners.

Oh that’s fucking hilarious, some SPAD is pulling the “but how do we know what sex someone is!?!? Biology is so complicated!!! You want genital inspections you perverts!!!!” line. Seriously guys, it’s tired and makes you sound stoopid.

Well, this is one to write to our MPs about, again, especially if they’re Tory. I hope this response is widely publicised, as it speaks for itself, doesn’t it. At a time when all parties are trying to claim they understand and are serious about tackling MVAWG. This is really easy pickings for any journalist worth their salt.

Why bother recording gender (which is what it'll be if not sex)? Why record age or ethnicity? What's the reason they actually collect data?

They could just save a whole lot of time by stopping data collection - apparently it's not all that important anyway.

Don't they all get strip searched in prison? Pretty sure it's easy to assertain if a cock and balls is present or not...

They knew what biological sex we were when they denied us votes, when they criminalised us loving the same sex, when they gave full power over our lives to our husbands or fathers etc...

I'm curious...Is there a convicted sex offender in the UK, who's biology isn't obvious? The government seem to be maintaining self ID through the back door, when they say there's no ethical way to find out what sex people are without a physical examination. We've seen the photos on 'it never happens' and we KNOW what sex they are

Yes I've just received that nonsense reply too. Something about in prisons we have to use their legal gender or we'd be going against the Equality of GRA or somesuch. That's precisely what the single sex exemptions are there for surely? It's a shame the petition didn't say "use EA exemptions and record sex as observed at birth" & then they wouldn't have been able to waste all those words on "ooh do you think we should check their chromosomes" sneers. That was the gist of it I think - I deleted it & am not reading it again.

It was so disappointing to read the response from gov. It's ludicrous to say that only a physical examination can determine sex. Anyone in this country who is convicted of rape can only be of the male sex because of the use of his penis to penetrate a woman (usually- I know that some men are raped too).

Responses like this mean that more vulnerable women will be imprisoned with rapists. And statistics on crime will be worthless because we will have idiots trotting out the line that women also commit rape and sexual assault. The figures will be incorrect.

For this response to be sent when there is supposedly a focus on VAWG and how it can be diminished, just goes to show that no one in power is really that bothered. How can we as a society combat VAWG if we can't even decide who is a woman?

Agree Laceoff. Bureaucracy in writing, issued the moment the petition reached 10k signatures. Now if it were to reach 100k..... people would have to actually talk about this and perhaps be forced to cut through the bureaucratic word salad

@FindTheTruth
Absolutely

A baby recognises male and female faces.
Pretty sure nobody needs to inspect genitalia

Mmm, if they don't want to do "genital inspections", just publishing face pictures will do... I'm sure we can figure it out for them.

I got it too, thought we were past this they think we're stupid.

Theres this amazing thing called DNA that can tell you things about a suspect, like ethnicity and sex...

SO, so much wrong with their response, it has clearly been written by a transactivist. How DARE this person write this rubbish. Are there no adults in the civil service?

The Government does not plan to require biological sex to be recorded across the criminal justice system

and this paragraph of gobbledegook, with no mention of SEX:

Her Majesty’s Prison and Probation Service (HMPPS) record the legally recognised gender of prisoners (or best available evidence where this is not known). The gender a prisoner identifies as is recorded in addition to the legally recognised gender, where this is different, which makes it clear that this is not the person’s legally recognised gender.

Theres this amazing thing called DNA that can tell you things about a suspect, like ethnicity and sex
If only there was a database to link DNA to criminals that could be used Someone should suggest that as an idea

I’m fairly certain those implicit bias tests require that you recognise sex from photos..

Or, you know. We could check every baby that's born and record their sex on an unchangeable document so you just have to produce a piece of paper to show your sex.

The whole response is so out of the TRA manual (perhaps they have a manual?)

... police or HMPPS to physically examine every suspect/prisoner

No, just the 6' bloke in a dress. It's not rocket science. Or just record him as a bloke, perhaps?
I wonder how many people we are talking about, where confusion is possible. Not many.

This arrived in my inbox this morning and I actually laughed out loud at how ridiculous the response was. Then I got really angry, this is a communication from the UK government FFS. It sounds like it's been written by a brainwashed teenager.

VATP - Violence Against the Person

MOJ stats: over > 99% of all sexual offenders for two decades are male

ONS & Eurostats: 88-90% of those "sexually offended against" are female

Signature Deadline: Friday 7th January 2022

WHY has this thread been moved? Bloody ridiculous.

This thread is still showing in Feminism for me, has it been moved? It shouldn't be moved as this is a discussion about what the government is saying

I am horrified by the contents of that response.

Why does it keep putting quotes around "biological sex" as if that is some kind of nebulous concept?

It also says "sex assigned at birth" so the ideology of the people who wrote this is very clear.

Also, this is one of the problems with changing legal documents to gender. If everyone's passport or ID documents had to record their sex AS OBSERVED AT BIRTH then there would be no problem, would there?

I hope some GC journos get their hands on this and we get some good articles on it in the weekend papers.

Piapiano, me too. This needs discussing openly and more awareness for the sake of victims of these crimes, women in prison and the general public being gaslit by the (HM Courts Bench Book) medias reporting of sex offenders as female.