Now I have seen it I cannot unsee it and it is obsessing me

[Blessex]

How do you all cope? I have read so much in the last week. How was this in front of my eyes and yet I couldn’t see it. Now I see it I cannot get it out of my head and it terrifies me. I am trying to let my intelligent friends know but it is like shaking zombies.

It helps to take breaks or channel our energy into practical stuff and activism.

People tend to change their mind at their own pace. It's not a process that can be rushed.

Regular breaks and some sort of physical activity to release the pent up anger and frustration. I have cried for my sisters OP. It’s hard when you see so many still with the “be kind” blinkers on

Yes, once you see it, you see it everywhere - you can't see it.

You just have to fight when you can, and rest when you need to. Someone else will pick up the fight when you rest.

Shaking zombies is a brilliant way of putting it.

I remember well going to my book group just after the IOC rules change to allow trans women to compete in female categories with ridiculously unfair consequences for women and telling them all about it. I was met with complete indifference. I couldn’t get over it. These were women who really cared about sport and yet they didn’t seem to care. It was, and is, very strange.

I’m sorry OP, it’s hard. It helps to know that there are many other women who feel the same.
I also feel like I was sleepwalking when this all happened and I didn’t notice. The worst is when you point out something very obvious to people and they don’t get it, or they don’t seem to care.

I also need to take breaks every now and then to stay sane.

I think it’s because it is a complex thing with multiple layers and facets. I went down a bit of a rabbit hole so have read and listened to lots of things. I have got Trans by Helen Joyce and Material Girls by Kathleen Stock but haven’t even read them yet and am terrified of what is happening. It all just started to click into place! I am doing my best now with my friends. I have some really intelligent friends but we are all left leaning and it hurts when you see how Labour and The Guardian are working against us! Interestingly they are two institutions set up for men and hmmmm - that sure runs deep. Some friends think I am obsessed transphobe I am sure as I am voicing my opinion. I could not be further from being someone tolerant who wants ALL marginal groups to be protected. My DH and my ex DH are starting to listen too.

I know what you mean , my children shut me down if I start any conversation, they have young children so it baffles me why they can't see the impact it may have . My friends also think I'm some kind of feminist obsessive . It's so depressing

I'm the same op. 6 years ago I was very benign and 'live and let live'/'be kind' about it and then the Green Party started talking about men/non-men and I went down a rabbit hole too and here I am too. You're not alone!

I feel the same. I see it everywhere and it makes me very very angry.

I know what you mean about left-leaning friends OP - it's as if they can't be both GC and socially conscious. Argh! My family get it - I educated my DSs, DH and DM and they're all as furious as I am - but so many female friends just nod and smile politely and I can see that they're either thinking 'What is she going on about?' or 'Oh God, my friend is a transphobe', which I'm not. Be whoever you want to be, but the safety of 51% of the world's population is more important that your feelings!

me too! A few years ago I woke up when Bruce Jenner transitioned to Caitlin, I read an interview with him in The Guardian and started thinking about what it means to "feel like a woman" and the penny dropped.

I work in quite a "woke" environment where a lot of people put pronouns on signatures etc. I try to push back but it's hard!

I've found a local women's group that meets monthly in a pub, and we all vent together. That helps.

It's very strange.
I've always thought we were still a long way from equality, but the shift in gear and rhetoric in the last 5/10 years has taken me a bit by surprise. The tendrils of patriarchy were much deeper and more widespread than I had seen before. The refusal or reluctance to see the bigger picture is everywhere.
I don't find my view is a minority one though but I think my approach in talking with people is quite Socratic, most people just haven't really thought very hard about how men and women interact and their relative value in society.
It's difficult to reconcile the view of inclusion of marginalised communities as being part of an assault on women's hard won rights. But in many ways, it really is.
Keep reading!

Yes, I know what you mean OP. I started talking about this (naively) at work a few years ago and got called a bigot, transphobe, homophobe etc. I was baffled that no one else appeared to be able to see what I saw. Now I know that some of those people who called me names are starting to have the scales fall from their eyes too, but it's a slow process.

I can't understand how intelligent, outspoken, apparently feminist women are going along with this utter fucking bullshit.

Thankfully I have a couple of friends I can talk about this stuff with, and DH gets it (kinda) but #bekind runs deep and women in particular are socialised to protect the so-called 'underdog'.

I think it was ?Gloria Steinem who said 'The truth will set you free. But first it will piss you off'. I'm still at the pissed-off stage.

It is very obsessing at first because of the dissonance of seeing society actually choosing to ignore the safety and well being of females over transitioned males.

It then becomes very apparent too, the tactics used to enable this progression.

There is a reason why you see activist style post on MN resorting to shaming posters, and gaslighting. They have nothing else to offer. The classic ‘you are a small group of hateful and noisy [insert slur of choice] and no one else agrees’ has thankfully been decreasing in use lately. Mainly due to the number of MN polls that continue to prove them wrong.

I expect that everyone who believes this is an issue will now bring it up on doorsteps whenever a politician arrives too.

In truth, I have not talked to one person who believes that women and girls should not have the right to choose the sex of their examiner and counsellor after rape, and should not have their own sports category and who believe a person who was male last year should be a women’s officer this year and so on.

When probed, those posters on MN who constantly shame others, also have limits on how far their activism extends. They just don’t like admitting it.

The level of awareness is growing quickly now in the greater population. And it will continue. The anger over ‘no debate’ and the gaslighting will take a very long time to get over though.

Blessex I haven't read Material Girls, but I'd highly recommend reading Trans by Helen Joyce. It's very easy to read and covers the entire issue very well. It's an excellent introduction to the topic for anyone with an interest, especially if you find yourself asking 'but how did we get here?!'.

I'm going to gift someone 'The End of the World is Flat' this Christmas. They are a very science oriented person and have always been scathing about flat earthers so I'm hoping a fictional story will help pique their interest in the gender stuff.

I know exactly how you feel. I’m in my early 30’s and people in my social group either think I’ve turned into a bigoted madwoman out of nowhere.

They are either at best naive or at worst wilfully ignorant.

I also cut down my time reading this board and took myself off of Twitter as it was hurting my mental health, but since another discussion with friends I felt so totally at a loss, I’m back. (On here, at least, with a different name). It’s like I need to see rational thought as it doesn’t seem to exist anymore.

I dread to think what it will take for the issue to become mainstream enough for people to start questioning it more than just the usual knee jerk reaction. I think I’ve got some pretty depressing ideas though…

What gives me a hope is that there is now proper resistance. MPs are speaking out, academics are sticking their heads above the parapet and writing measured, fair, well-written books on the subject, there are women's organisations that are campaigning and informing people, mainstream newspapers are hosting regular columns about the toxicity of cancel culture, the threat to free speech, and the erosion of women's safety and women's right to single sex spaces. So there is, finally, a conversation about this stuff.

The TRAs have tried so hard and largely succeeded thus far in shutting down any kind of discussion or debate, but debate is finally starting to happen. More and more people are realising what this means for them, their daughters, mothers, friends, female sport, and the safety of women everywhere - in hospitals, prisons and shelters, etc.

*safety AND DIGNITY, that should say ✊🏼

This is the thread that brought me here in June because I was so surprised to hear the subject on the radio that I searched for it....
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4271412-Radio-4-Afternoon-Drama-blimey
I have been pretty much obsessed ever since after finding this space where women can talk freely (I had thought it was all nappies and cakes). But pretty devastated to find how bad things were (are) for women and children...
I sometimes despair that there is so little I can do, but now and then I feel a spark of hope that things might change...

@Scraggythang ha I know what you mean. Am sure my friends thing I have turned into a raging bigoted madwoman! It also passed through my head what monstrosity needs to happen to open peoples eyes but I cannot go there. It’s all just too awful.

Practical action calms me down. Stickers and leaflets, protest, go to talks. Reading about things and doing nothing with the rage is what breaks me.
I have to take breaks from it too.

I agree

I’m currently pregnant and have started following several antenatal exercise and physio accounts on Instagram

If I see one more post that addresses ‘pregnant people’…
All otherwise very sensible people as well…

I have told friends that their are women locked up with convicted rapists and they believe me, in some cases already knew, but they seem quite indifferent to it, even when they are agreeing it's wrong.
I can't cope when people don't mind these things, it's the passiveness.

I think many people look the other way because they can't face what they are hearing. Someone close to me yesterday said "I can't cope with how angry you are about it". I said "you know why I am angry". He concurred but he didn't have the energy to engage. If people look this in the eye they have to act. It is why they don't. People head bury. It is fascinating and quite disturbing the lengths to which people do this I think.