Now I have seen it I cannot unsee it and it is obsessing me

[Blessex]

How do you all cope? I have read so much in the last week. How was this in front of my eyes and yet I couldn’t see it. Now I see it I cannot get it out of my head and it terrifies me. I am trying to let my intelligent friends know but it is like shaking zombies.

@JoodyBlue they also don’t want to be seen as bigoted. By agreeing wholeheartedly they run the risk of being ‘close minded’ and ‘unkind’.

Also, the belief of people being born in the wrong body and gender identity being scientific or akin to sexuality seems to be deeply ingrained and hard to shake. In my social group, anyway.

I’ve just bought The End of the World is Flat for myself, Nonny. It looks to be a brilliant satire on gender ideology.
What hooked me was Julie Bindel’s review on the back: “I laughed so hard, I nearly fell in my cauldron!”. Wonderful!

OP it's a nightmare isn't it. I saw it in early 2018 and obviously haven't unseen. Some people are not allowing themselves to see it.

Meeting other like minded women in the pub is definitely a good idea. There are various groups around the country.

One thing you can do is write to your mp and ask them to support the other mps who are starting to speak (or thank them if they have). They will have been sent a free copy of her joyces book by Sex Matters, so you could ask them to read it, or tell them a couple of policy issues that you think are important.

What made you realise something was up?

Feeling very isolated here. So far within our families and friendships we seem to be the only ones who can see. When I have tentatively tried to discuss this, the response is either that transpeople are just a suppressed minority and we should "be kind" or plain lack of interest and denial, as in it's not really an issue, is it?

I've recently finished a friendship with someone I've known for 20 years. Her constant refrain was 'I'll discuss this with you when you're not angry. I want you to meet my nice transwoman friend Angela. Have a cup of tea with her and then you'll understand there's nothing to worry about.'

It's like trying to discuss quantum physics with someone who failed their GCSE. There is no point. I've wished her well and said it's time for me to move on and if, one day, she suddenly sees what I see I'll be happy to talk to her. I regard her as one of those wartime collaborators who's sell out their village if it meant they got some sugar or the approval of the oppressors.

Strangely, I hear that since I told her it's over she's started reading some of the articles I've forwarded her over the last few years... I think sometimes when you politely, consciously dump people it can make them think.

I see too. Millions of thoughts rushing round my head. I was always live and let live too but am frightened at how quickly WOMEN'S rights are being sacrificed on this altar. I'm absolutely astounded at how easy it is now for men just to say they identify as a woman, cosplay as a woman and have unfettered access to women's spaces - which are being eroded day by day.

The last straw for me was the whole utterly offensive "reframing trauma" narrative as per #AskRapeCrisisScotland. I've had arguments about this and called a TERF, a dinosaur, etc. but I really don't care any more. I'm an angry and often frightened WOMAN.

Shedbuilder good for you.
#bekind works its way into everything, including friendships. I couldn't stay friends with someone who belittled me for my concerns about women's rights.

You’re not alone OP.

The issue provoked a whole host of emotions - anger, frustration, despair. Then you get a good news thing - like Maya Forstater’s case - and you feel hopeful and positive. And then you get a simple form to fill in asking for gender identity, with drop down choices male and female (and whatever else) and it all just starts back up again.

I’ve channeled some of my anger into letter writing, sadly with no great success. But I figure that the more noise we make, the sooner someone will start listening.

And indeed they are - Baroness Nicholson, a couple of the PCCs, some politicians etc. But it’s slow progress.

Let’s keep going!

It's horrible isn't it, OP. I felt that way when I first opened my eyes too, and my husband got so tired of me talking about it. I'm glad I kept on, though, because he now fully understands and is talking to people about it too, helping them to see (which is good, because he's a lawyer so knows how to argue things, and doesn't care when people disagree vehemently, whereas I get flustered and struggle to present the arguments clearly).

If I don't take breaks away from reading about things then I get overwhelmed and despondent, so I definitely agree with others that it's important to take breaks sometimes.

When my friend (secondary teacher) started trying to explain the gender identity and non binary thing when she was working on the LGBT group, I felt it was a bit regressive - surely we should be working towards breaking down gender stereotypes, not making those boxes stronger and shuffling people between them. But it was quite theoretical and apart from my compassion for people suffering dysphoria.

Then JKR (a hero of mine anyway) was attacked for having some really reasonable concerns and how the young actors distanced themselves from her like she was contagious, when they could have said "I disagree with Jo's opinion about gender and biological sex, but I sincerely believe she and her life's work are anti-prejudice and discrimination and I don't believe her to be transphobic."

It's like people aren't allowed to be wrong anymore, they must be evil.

And I dropped in and out of these forums.

Then recently I've got to the point you have where I'm angry about it and can't unsee it all. For me, I think the anger has come from the violence against women and girls and how even whilst politicians can decry that, they can also pretend not to know what a woman or girl is and deny us rights to female only spaces. As if the two issues are completely separate.

Learning more about the problems in prisons and sports etc. I've just listened to Material Girls on Audible and I have Trans still to read.

Interestingly I was recently speaking to my friend who tried to explain gender identity to me years ago (tentatively because I still expected her to be on that side of the argument) but she has changed her mind too, even if she's not as angry about it as me.

I'm in quite a good bubble with my husband and my online friends, so I'm still surprised when I come across something referring to "Menstruators" in the wild rather than as a talking point on here, like I did the other day. It was a young woman trying to be kind and inclusive 🤦‍♀️

It's something I've had at the back of my mind for a while, now. I've had more personally pressing stuff to give my energy to, but it's always niggled, particularly when I've had to vote.

"The last straw for me was the whole utterly offensive "reframing trauma" narrative as per #AskRapeCrisisScotland" was probably the turning point for me, as well, along with the creation of this board in its current form.

@Blessex

How do you all cope? I have read so much in the last week. How was this in front of my eyes and yet I couldn’t see it. Now I see it I cannot get it out of my head and it terrifies me. I am trying to let my intelligent friends know but it is like shaking zombies.

There's a Dworkin quote that I think is quite apt here, OP.

“Many women, I think, resist feminism because it is an agony to be fully conscious of the brutal misogyny which permeates culture, society, and all personal relationships.”

― Andrea Dworkin, Our Blood: Prophecies and Discourses on Sexual Politics

The idea of resistance to seeing what is in plain sight - yep. It is very, very hard to take on board that all those rights I though I had can be stripped from me so easily. But, once seen you cannot unsee.

'I'll discuss this with you when you're not angry. I want you to meet my nice transwoman friend Angela. Have a cup of tea with her and then you'll understand there's nothing to worry about.'

I have a trans woman family member.

She made a pass at my husband. She had another family member by the throat up against the wall. When she came out, she really seemed to think women spend all their time squeezing each other's boobs - as I found out.

I am tempted to invite her along to one of my girls' nights out, see how all my pals react to her insisting on following them into the loo and dominating the conversation in her put on voice.....

...... and interestingly, she is against self ID because she feels it is damaging to the trans community, and thinks giving children puberty blockers is horribly wrong. Their heads would spin....

But your mate's mate Angela, and my family member, do not represent the whole of the trans community. One nice - or horrible - person does not mean the whole community is the same as them. I am really surprised when people cannot see beyond their own experiences and understand that letting 'Angela' self ID was female also let's Karen White into our safe spaces, even though Angela is lovely....

I've been banging on about this for a while - I think it was Man Friday and the Hampstead ponds that caught my imagination - and my husband used to roll his eyes at me. Now he sees it almost as soon as I do, the erasure of language, the proliferation of drag on the Beeb, the number of TV progs that now have trans characters when he hasn't actually ever met a trans person (we live very rurally) so thinks it's an over-representation.

An interesting point came out that I'd never really considered before, and that was my ability to accurately sex someone no matter what they were wearing, whereas he got stuck on the clothes and lippy. I learnt on here it's a survival thing in women, and he was shocked at the behaviour of some men I've encountered over the years. He's very much onside and is beginning to see the rampant sexism everywhere, even in his own brother.

@Angrysaurus

I have told friends that their are women locked up with convicted rapists and they believe me, in some cases already knew, but they seem quite indifferent to it, even when they are agreeing it's wrong. I can't cope when people don't mind these things, it's the passiveness.

I know, it's infuriating how little people seem to give a shit. And these would be people who are very into human rights and society. Maybe they just don't see women as fully human, and I guess women in prison aren't important enough .

I read somewhere (on here maybe) that this issue is creating a whole new generation of radical feminists, of all ages! I count myself among them, and I never would have thought of myself as one before.

The urge to do something to stop the onslaught of madness is strong.
But it feels like the momentum is too big, and will take years to row back from this! YEARS! And then I get disheartened.

I can't believe how wilfully ignorant so many people are of something so bloody obvious! How can they not see the damage being done in all this?

I have to take breaks. It find it upsetting, threatening and bewildering. The bewildering part applies to 'why are supposedly sensible people going along with this? why are they not stamping on it immediately? why are universities, of all places, indulging this?'. I fight in my own way which is disappointing to me but all I can do (disabled, old, no real influence over anything including myself).

Then I get scared that this is the future for when I'm a really helpless old lady and I want to die now to avoid it. Then I take a break.

I recommend kickboxing and sleeping pills.

And doing something. Anything, frankly to help us get closer to the common sense of days of yore.

It always makes me feel better.

It’s hard to know what to do because talking about it openly could cost you your job.

Even the way the debate is framed with words such as TERFs and transphobes being routinely used to describe the GC side immediately puts us in the position of having to justify ourselves, explain why we are not bigots and it takes the focus away from our aim, which is simply to protect our sex-based rights.

It is scary and I’m not brave enough to go public so I just make sure I show my appreciation to the women who are brave enough to speak out.

@Manderleyagain I was thinking what you are asking. What made me see it? I don’t have anybody around me talking about it. So I knew on the fringe something was up. I am a biology and genetics student albeit from many years ago and consider myself well educated. I heard about the JK Rowling fracas and read her note - thinking hmmmm what’s all the fuss about. Then I saw people cancelling and denouncing her. I am on mumsnet so always knew there was a bit of a fracas in the background and some brands were boycotting advertising here. I was aware of Allison Bailey and Keira Bell. I watched that pretty neutral interested in what they had to say. What tipped me over the edge was watching Helen Joyce and other women speaking at the Conservative conference fringe event. And then I saw rosie Duffield not able to attend the Labour Party Conference and Keir Starmer saying that we cannot say women have a cervix. What?????? Then David Lammy. Then I ordered Trans and then saw Kathleen Stock being abused. I tipped over the edge. Nobody did it to me. I tipped over. It’s safe to say tho I have tipped a few over the edge since my recent obsession started. I had an interesting conversation with my DS and DD tonight. Teenagers at what you would call ‘right on’ schools. I spoke with them and they said mum. It’s all absolutely ridiculous. There is some trend going on and we (me and friends) just roll our eyes at a lot of it and carry on. I just said never repeat what I tell you and carry on looking indifferent at school. I mean Jesus wept. I we know the freaking resistance or something.

*are we now…

My DS actually said - when will people having their heads again and see it for what it is. When can we move on from this madness. I said honestly I don’t know. Where is the tipping point?

@Shedbuilder it’s like trying to discuss quantum physics with somebody who failed their GCSE

Spot on. That’s how I feel when I now hear Lisa Nandy commenting on it.

@jux. You have a LOT of sisters. And you are not alone. We are together.

Welcome Blessex!

Buckle in, you’ve a long and bumpy ride ahead…

But the women here are brilliant.

🥂🍾

@AnyOldPrion it’s so heartening to read all the comments here. I thought I was being gas lit. So good to find the sanity !