Campaign of bullying and intimidation at Sussex University vs Professor Kathleen Stock

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Absolute disgrace. Posters on campus calling for her to be sacked. Academic colleague tweeting that he agrees with this. twitter.com/FrancescoFv37/status/1445727937660076032?t=-Di7mRf5sznFvvzww8UI2w&s=19 I saw a tweet saying there was a burning in effigy. Can't confirm this but nothing would surprise me now. Time for Sussex staff, students and alumni to put their heads over the parapet.

I think the reaction of the university may be having some effect.
Stephanie Hayden in 2018 and today.
If all unis presented a firm and concerted effort to stamp this out, it would go a long way to ending it. The law needs to applied.

@GCAcademic

yes they should get a decent experience but taxpayers should equally get value for the money they are loaning and it is being wasted on the kind of students who are threatening and harassing Kathleen Stock.

I agree with this. Although I would probably lose my job as a result, I think there needs to be a drastic scaling back of university-level education in certain subjects, so that we can be sure that only people who can properly benefit from it are in Higher Education. That doesn't just mean people who have As at A level (that is practically everyone, anyway) but people who are genuinely open to the exchange of ideas and broadening of their minds. No one who behaves like these students at Sussex are doing has any place on a university campus.

I agree.

Also, in my opinion, the current trend of having a degree being a requirement for practically any job should stop particularly when the degree bears absolutely no relevance to the job in question.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

When the Women's Officer is advised by the police not to go to her workplace in person, and has a marker put on her phone to get priority police attendance if she dials 999, then I will feel the same horror and sympathy for her as I currently have for Professor Stock.

When I was at university the heated debates were around whether women could have their own officer! I remember when nus elected the first women's officer and launched the women's campaign.

yes they should get a decent experience but taxpayers should equally get value for the money they are loaning and it is being wasted on the kind of students who are threatening and harassing Kathleen Stock.

I felt there was a "should be grateful for what they get" air about your previous post, which was why I commented. It is not a free ride for many.
But absolutely it should not be the kind of students that think they can harass university staff for having a different viewpoint. And certainly tax payers should be getting value for money...although not sure how you would quantify that. As there are a lot of people now who sadly feel arts education isn't value for the taxpayer.

Dear Guardian,

What a difference it makes when a newspaper allows comments after an article. I just read the Griffiths piece on this latest disgraceful installment of the vicious bullying and threatening behaviour inflicted upon Prof. Stock in the Sunday Times, and went through 6 'load more replies' of the (so far) 584 responses without encountering one comment that was anything other than completely supportive of both Prof. Stock and, almost more importantly, a gender critical position.

(Or reality, as I like to call it...)

It would be worthwhile for a uni to explore being seen as the bastion of free speech; even Oxbridge have capitulated.
It would be quite entertaining if Sussex turned from the "wokest uni in the land" into the one place free speech advocates want to study at and work in. I can't see it happening but it would be one way to carve out a niche in what is basically an industry with little innovation.
If 25% percent of all students feel they can't express their views then whichever uni actually allowed for debate would be massively oversubscribed. And industry might value those graduates more highly once they start looking for jobs. The whole rigour of proper debate etc.
Maybe grads would find it harder to get employed in the public sector, but aside from that I can't see any downsides to a uni setting out its stall as a place where "no debate" is not permitted to stifle thought and learning.

@MargaritaPie

I happened to see some of the abuse Lucy was receiving from "Gender Criticals" before she made her Twitter private, and yes a lot of it was IMO abuse and harassment.

I happened to see some of it too.

Nobody pissed up her office door.

Nobody sent police officers to her house to arrest her whilst she was feeding her kids their breakfast.

Nobody posted a picture of themselves holding a gun, saying they knew were she lived.

Nobody hung an effigy of her, by a noose, from its neck, where she would see it as she went to work.

Nobody lobbied her employer with anonymous threats to sack her, or else.

Nobody organised a group of masked people to bang on doors and windows where she was working, talking.

She wasn't advised to put cameras around her home.

She hasn't had a panic alarm fitted in her home.

She hasn't had her phone, name and address put on an alert list with local police.

She doesn't go to work with a bodyguard.

All of those things, and more, have happened to GC women, most of them have happened to this one woman.

You have absolutely no moral compass, Marge Shame on you!

RedDogsBeg
The inflation began when Blair wanted 2/3 of school leavers to go to uni. Employers thought, well if 2/3 of young people have a degree, why not stick it in as a prerequisite for an office junior job? So they did.
The thing is, once you get to about 30 you can stick a degree on your cv anyway, and nobody is going to check, especially if you claim to have a mediocre degree in a subject unrelated to your job. (I'm not condoning this, but it happens)
A young person who joins a big company, goes through some kind of training scheme and into management by their early twenties is more likely to have a decent career than a graduate who wants to only work in their chosen field or who doesn't want an entry-level job. I've seen it loads of times. Obviously when it comes to certain professions a degree is necessary (often several degrees) and as a result certain very well paid jobs are graduate-only, but there are opportunities for non-graduates too, they just aren't as clear at the outset.

In my undergrad days, the Big Controversey was David Irving, a holocaust denier who used fabricated and forged sources to argue the Nazis weren't so bad really and it was all the fault of the British for bombing Dresden, etc.

We were encouraged to analyse the evidence and set Irving's detailed scholarship in some fields against his fraud. To what extent should we throw out his good research with the bad?

At no stage were we told not to read his books. Quite the contrary.

That sounds like really useful teaching, Jaysmith71.

Good old Scumbag

@Jaysmith71

In my undergrad days, the Big Controversey was David Irving, a holocaust denier who used fabricated and forged sources to argue the Nazis weren't so bad really and it was all the fault of the British for bombing Dresden, etc.

We were encouraged to analyse the evidence and set Irving's detailed scholarship in some fields against his fraud. To what extent should we throw out his good research with the bad?

At no stage were we told not to read his books. Quite the contrary.

We had similar when I was at school - talks from people on provocative subjects and we were expected to question and argue coherently for or against.

We also invited the nice young man from the South African Embassy to tell us that Apartheid wasn't so bad. He got a polite hearing and some tough questions. All amicable, chatting on the way out of the room, then when he called the lift and got in, we gave him a look and took the stairs.

And had the nice man from the ANC in the following week.

We had speakers from both sides of the abortion debate in the sixth form. I wonder if that still happens or if students would complain too much about one side.

@Imnobody4

I think the reaction of the university may be having some effect. Stephanie Hayden in 2018 and today. If all unis presented a firm and concerted effort to stamp this out, it would go a long way to ending it. The law needs to applied.

Stephanie Hayden’s reaction has nothing to do with the university’s stance and everything to do with the fact that Stephanie Hayden is desperate for media attention and to be thought of as a mainstream transgender voice of reason.

It’s a bit rich coming from someone who has been responsible for the arrest of two women for exposing details of their less than salubrious past, which they would prefer to stay hidden. Together with their bestie Harrop, Hayden organised for the cancellation of a deaf lesbian academic from York University because she had misgendered Rachel McKinnon or whatever they call themselves these days on the KiwiFarms. This resulted in several other innocent people not caught up in the Great Trans Wars also losing their research fellowships in order that York wasn’t sued.

Sussex’s stance is excellent, but Stephanie Hayden is out for Stephanie Hayden and should in no way be considered reasonable or a barometer of TRA opinion.

According to Andrew Doyle on GBNews, KS failed to appear for this on police advice.

www.battleofideas.org.uk/session/hate-heresy-and-the-fight-for-free-speech/

That's correct, Jaysmith71, a prepared statement from KS was read out instead.

Sussex’s stance is excellent, but Stephanie Hayden is out for Stephanie Hayden and should in no way be considered reasonable or a barometer of TRA opinion.
Yes I agree but their change of tune suggests that they're no longer seeing 'sack her' as a 'safe' response as there may be consequences. They'll never be seen as reasonable given their history.

It’s also encouraging that the way Hayden attempts to get media attention is through trying to be reasonable rather than extreme.

I didn’t know Prof Stock has also had to cancel a speaking event outside of academia on police advice. Jesus. Those belligerent TRA arseholes really hate women don’t they. I hope that the threateners are caught and dealt with by the police.

Seriously, MN? I have been modded for calling someone vile?

Well, it's clear who's watching the thread.