Binders and breathing issues

[NameChangeinHaste]

This week in school I witnessed one of our NB female students, who also happens to have asthma, have an awful attack of shortness of breath. I can’t say if it was an asthma attack, though they did have their inhaler.
It only struck me last night that they may be wearing a binder, which will likely have exacerbated the attack.
I need to send an email to Head of Year, gently suggesting that if they are wearing one they may be linked.
Turns out we’re fully signed up to Stonewall, so dinners to tread carefully, though many colleagues are aware of my thoughts.
Does anyone know of only good links outlining the link between binding and breathing difficulties that I could attach to me email?
Many thanks.

@OldCrone

There seems to be an anti-NB vibe on this thread.

You're mistaking concern about teenage girls harming themselves for 'anti-NB'.

If grown men can be 'women with penises', why can't teenage girls who want to be non-binary be non-binary with breasts?

They can, but what if they don’t want to? Who are to dictate to them?

They can, but what if they don’t want to? Who are to dictate to them?

There are many other things that teenagers might want to do, but our job as adults is to protect them from those things that will do them harm.

@TimeToDateAgain
So what are your qualifications then? Are you a respiratory consultant doctor? Or a liability law solicitor? You seem very sure of yourself...why not lead with “I’m an blah de blah expert.....” before your advice and let it speak for itself?

There seems to be an anti-NB vibe on this thread.

Oh, ffs.

My concern is for children being potentially harmed by dangerous practise. I dgaf how they identify.

@OldCrone

They can, but what if they don’t want to? Who are to dictate to them?

There are many other things that teenagers might want to do, but our job as adults is to protect them from those things that will do them harm.

Sex harms, but we teach safe sex instead of abstinence because we know they will do it anyway. Why not not teach safe chest binding, you know NB and FtM are going to do it anyway....

What difference does it make? You think people should say 'oh, it's harmful, but seeing as they identify a particular way, never mind'? Honestly? That's cold.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@TimeToDateAgain
So what are your qualifications then? Are you a respiratory consultant doctor? Or a liability law solicitor? You seem very sure of yourself...why not lead with “I’m an blah de blah expert.....” before your advice and let it speak for itself?[/quote]
I wonder if you've not grasped that I'm not the poster who is advocating for something which has consequences for the health of children, safeguarding frameworks, or liability law?

Those who make extraordinary claims should be prepared with commensurate proof and evidence.

@ArabellaScott

What difference does it make? You think people should say 'oh, it's harmful, but seeing as they identify a particular way, never mind'? Honestly? That's cold.

That’s not what I said. I said teens will do it anyway and it is therefore better to give them safety information so they can do it as safely as possible than it is to withhold safety information or try and ban it.

I think purposely keeping them in the dark and watching them do something in an patently unsafe way is “cold” and negligent.

I do agree with informing the parents though. That was a good idea from pp.

It IS well documented that physical activity, sport, fresh air, being outside in nature does make a huge difference to the mental well being of young people. To encourage involvement in a culture that incapacitates a teen individual by restricting breathing and therefore access to activity that can lift mood naturally is just ludicrous . Those who promote it are culpable and those who make profit ,out of this are beyond the pale in my opinion. There will come a time when those who failed to look out for young people in this way will be called to account.

Sex harms, but we teach safe sex instead of abstinence because we know they will do it anyway. Why not not teach safe chest binding, you know NB and FtM are going to do it anyway....

Breast binding could be banned in schools which would help these girls who wish to self harm in this way. Why do you think these girls feel the need to self harm like this?

it is therefore better to give them safety information so they can do it as safely as possible

I do not understand how a harmful thing can be done in a safe way. If 'as safely as possible' is still harmful, I'd say it should be avoided.

(I believe you're right about corsets being less harmful than they're billed, though. According to DD, who is fascinated by historical costume, they were often a custom-made, supportive fit around the ribcage that didn't rely on breast squashing.)

@TimeToDateAgain
Oh, so you’re no more of an expert than I am. Nice.

I'm not the poster who is advocating for something which has consequences for the health of children, safeguarding frameworks, or liability law?

Oh but you are. As the chest binding study posted clearly stated, chest binding may have risks for physical health but has benefits for mental health and quality of life. Therefore, your advocacy opposite to mine to not allow chest binding may reduce risks for physical health but increases risks for mental health and quality of life. It is also against the recommendations stated in that study to “avoid making categorical recommendations against binding due to its positive effects on mental health and quality of life.“

Both physical and mental health are part of the health of children, safeguarding and liability law.

I’m the one advocating what the study recommends....therefore I think you are the one short on proof, not I.

chest binding may have risks for physical health but has benefits for mental health and quality of life

You're missing the 'may' in the second clause, there. Important to note.

Also, does it actually have 'benefits', or is it more a reduction in other comorbid mental health issues, ie dysphoria, in which case, perhaps the dysphoria needs to be addressed.

One could equally say that heroin has 'mental health benefits' because it addresses the suffering of withdrawal.

I’m the one advocating what the study recommends....therefore I think you are the one short on proof, not I.

I recommend re-reading the study.

I like the way that paraphrasing is double-hedged in the first clause: "may" and "risks" rather than "has costs".

Second clause could similarly be "may have potential benefits" to match.

The wording in the study itself is somewhat more balanced, refraining from ever saying anything quite so loaded in one direction.

@ArabellaScott
Chest binding is not comparable to highly addictive illegal class A drug use.

@TimeToDateAgain

I’m the one advocating what the study recommends....therefore I think you are the one short on proof, not I.

I recommend re-reading the study.

Awwww poor you. You’ve read the study and could find no recommendation in it to support your advocacy to blanket ban chest binding. Maybe try google? I’m sure you can find a blog or something that supports withholding safety information from NB children “for their own good”

You’ve read the study and could find no recommendation in it to support your advocacy to blanket ban chest binding.

It's plain that this is a paraphrase of your own construction. It's useful in that it spotlights how much weight should be accorded to the interpretation of your reflection on these substantial issues.

I'm neither disappointed nor surprised that you haven't taken the time to reflect on the quality of your contribution to a discussion about harms to children, safeguarding, and education policy.

@NameChangeinHaste

This is all very helpful, thank you. I’ll be having the conversation tomorrow. I feel so sad for so many of our girls, since lockdown we have so many who now tell us they are non-binary.

I find this so sad. I don't want to de-rail the thread and I am not very aware of the thought processes leading to the use of binders etc. I live in Europe and am involved in both my kids schools and in two schools with a combined total of 1,100 pupils I know of only one case where a child is having surgery to address gender issues. Why is this? Less social media? Less body consciousness? Maybe because we are so rural kids are outside doing more outside things and less on social media. Or maybe it happens in the UK across all school communities? I find it interesting as to why its not prevelant where we live and my kids never talk about it? (Sorry If I de-railed thread - just curious)

@TimeToDateAgain

You’ve read the study and could find no recommendation in it to support your advocacy to blanket ban chest binding.

It's plain that this is a paraphrase of your own construction. It's useful in that it spotlights how much weight should be accorded to the interpretation of your reflection on these substantial issues.

I'm neither disappointed nor surprised that you haven't taken the time to reflect on the quality of your contribution to a discussion about harms to children, safeguarding, and education policy.

Quite, Time.

Colin, surgery for a school age child is enormously rare, I would say. At least, in the UK it's not legal to have surgery before age 18.

There are plenty of other issues that may be less visible (and may not be going on, I don't know).

How many are identifying as a different 'gender'? On puberty blockers? Using neo-pronouns? Would be intersting to hear.

@ArabellaScott Thank you. The child is 16 I think. I see there might be other less visible issues as you say - these would not be visible at all. I know nobody talking about it - neither of my kids mentions it. I did have a friend here who went to the US last year ( he is a professor) and lived there for a year and both his daughters came back with a lot of gender/ sexuality questions after exposure to the US school system which is completely at odds to how we are here. They are now back in school and that conversation has stopped. As you say there may be hidden issues but the lack of conversation/ discussion around this fascinates me as to why we don't hear about it.
Maybe I live in a total backwater! Maybe its societal/ environmental discussoin too which happens in specific contexts.
Both my kids and I would say most of their friends would have no idea of what non binary even is.

Safeguarding is everyone's responsibility.

www.safeguardingcambspeterborough.org.uk/children-board/professionals/procedures/breast-ironing/

"Breast Ironing is a harmful cultural practice and is child abuse. Professionals working with children and young people must be able to identify the signs and symptoms of girls who are at risk of or have undergone breast ironing. Similarly to Female Genital Mutilation (FGM), breast ironing is classified as physical abuse."

"Those who derive from richer families may opt to use an elastic belt to press the breasts so as to prevent them from growing."

Sounds familiar?

I'm curious Plan as to how precisely you would distinguish between 'breast binding' and 'breast ironing' as a safeguarding issue for a UK schoolgirl?

"Due to the instruments which are used during the process of breast ironing, for example, spoon/broom, stones, pestle, breast band, leaves etc. combined with insufficient aftercare, young girls are exposed to significant health risks. Breast ironing is painful and violates a young girl’s physical integrity. It exposes girls to numerous health problems such as cancer, abscesses, itching, and discharge of milk, infection, dissymmetry of the breasts, cysts, breast infections, severe fever, tissue damage and even the complete disappearance of one or both breasts."

I think I also read that if a girl does bind her tissue won't be suitable for mascetomy. But if a girl binds for a long period her breast will be flat and elongated and cause more distress and desire to have a mascetomy.
The breats tissue has to go somewhere, one photo I saw of what was clearly a large breasted girl her nipples were at her waist surely that adds to the dysphoria of having breasts if they are also deformed.
I don't think it should ever be recommended but girls should know that if they use unsafe things like bandages and duct tape their will likely be serious complications.
I think preventing physical harm is best and focus on other things that promote mental good health.

I sorry for schools having this responsibility. I did send the link I shared up thread with my school, they really need to be aware of the issues and risks when allowing girls to bind.

Would you also suggest that they should check that a child who was cutting themself was doing so 'safely' by only using clean blades and not cutting too deep?

A child who is so distressed by their body that they are self harming needs urgent help with their mental health, not advice on how to self harm 'safely'.

Well harm minimisation is a thing. Demanding somebody stops self-harming before addressing the issues behind it can be counter-productive.

And sadly, help is rarely available quickly enough.