46% of trans people disabled, 52% neurodiverse.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

I'm sure this has come up before - these figures are astonishing, but never seem to be explored in the reports. (This is from Trans Lives 2021 www.transactual.org.uk/trans-lives-21 )

I'm certain these numbers are way higher than in the general population?

Does being trans cause disabilities? Or why does being disabled make you more likely to be trans.

Surely these questions need to be answered rather than just pointed out and then ignored. I would be very interested to know if any of our trans readers have any insight into this?

Trans actual don't say who they are. Any idea who is the group of people who run it?

I’m also amazed at the stats like 80 percent of non binary people have experienced transphobia at work. I’d be curious to know what they mean by “transphobic” - the figures seem shockingly high.

Threads like this can sometimes be tough to read as an autistic MNer. Sometimes it seems like the kiwi farms attitude to autism rubs off on folk here.

However there is a big overlap between being autistic and central sensitivity syndromes (someone is researching this for a PhD just now - Sarah Grant - she presented at this year's Playing A Part).
So that would be things like fibromyalgia, ehler danlos etc.

So it is quite likely someone may be autistic and physically disabled.

And we know neurodivergent people are more likely to identify as trans or non binary.

I think it's more likely that being neurodivergent is the core factor here. Rather than being disabled making you more likely to be trans or vice versa.

neurodivergent people are more likely to identify as trans or non binary

Is this consistent through the age groups?

I would have as much confidence in Trans Actual's surveys, reports and statistics as I would in similar from Stonewall.

@SuperLoudPoppingAction

Threads like this can sometimes be tough to read as an autistic MNer. Sometimes it seems like the kiwi farms attitude to autism rubs off on folk here.

However there is a big overlap between being autistic and central sensitivity syndromes (someone is researching this for a PhD just now - Sarah Grant - she presented at this year's Playing A Part).
So that would be things like fibromyalgia, ehler danlos etc.

So it is quite likely someone may be autistic and physically disabled.

And we know neurodivergent people are more likely to identify as trans or non binary.

I think it's more likely that being neurodivergent is the core factor here. Rather than being disabled making you more likely to be trans or vice versa.

Genuine apologies, I didn't mean to be insensitive.

I had known about the possible link between autism and trans, but the link between disability and trans only seems to come up in these surveys. I was unaware of the correlation between autism and central sensitivity syndromes - that's really interesting!

I wonder why the link between autism and transpeople though it sounds like that could be worth further research.

@SuperLoudPoppingAction

'Central sensitivity syndromes' is very much still in the sphere of much discussed theory, without actual evidence as yet. But the CSS theorisers are keen to sweep up as many conditions as possible into it's research pool.

Sarah Grant states: .... "These conditions have been termed ‘central sensitivity syndromes’ (Yunus 2008) and include fibromyalgia, ME/chronic fatigue syndrome, irritable bowel syndrome, migraine and a number of others."

.
Already classified and researched diseases such as Fibromyalgia, IBS and ME being "termed" central sensitivity syndromes (CSS) does not mean they Are CSS. Both ME and Fibromyalgia (for example have a substantial body of research identifying multiple body system dysfunction that are not indicative of the theoretical 'central sensitisation'.

Identifying as having a disability on self diagnosis is prevalent now in some sections of society it seems.

Which really pisses me off personally.

Because.

In ye olden days the wording identity as having a disability was used for the same good reasons as identify ethnicity (I think it's usually called).

It was because not everyone with a disability, even one with significant impact on life, accepted that label for themselves. It was to be understanding that it was sensitive and if you didn't want to say yes you didn't have to. In things it was used for something other than equalities monitoring or similar. The questions would be specific about diagnosis, limitations etc. Eg some insurance, certain benefits applications (for all the good that did/ does) etc.

For ethnicity it was because it was another sensitive question. Someone born here with Irish parents and strong family connections in Ireland etc may identify as Irish. Similarly those of parents of different backgrounds may identify as one, the other, or as both. Iyswim.

The idea that a person would choose to ID as having a disability just didn't really occur to anyone and I doubt it happened much. Ditto a white person with v English background for years identifying as Chinese. I suspect that doesn't happen much but still.

The useful term identify as. Has been misused and bastardised as so much other stuff has. And it's original use for stats etc made meaningless.

As a physically disabled person who's probably autistic and the parent of a diagnosed autistic child, I'd be interested in their scope of disabled. Some neuro diverse people identify as disabled, some don't. Some physically disabled people identify as disabled, some don't.

It pisses me personally off as I have a physical disability from birth that while not as bad on the fact of it has still meant massive issues through school, life, loads of surgery etc.

I didn't apply the word to myself until i was in my 30s. 3 decades to come to terms with everything emotionally and make peace with it.

Others feel differently obv. It's very personal.

Lol at people identifying as neurodiverse, a person can't be neurodiverse, they can only be neurodivergent. If they can't even use accurate terms what's the point?

Self-identifying as something is not the same as actually being something, as we know.

On this issue I always question why these stats are produced circulated cited reported on etc.

And yet none of the many many trans orgs seem to do anything to tackle the issues/ questions raised by their own stats.

Where are the studies into what type of disabilities? Physical, neurological, something else? What are the age groups? Why the over- representation in the trans population? What can we do to get to the bottom of this and provide appropriate support? Which came first, the disability or the realisation of a trans ID? Is there anything else these groups share?

Same for those who are autistic or have other diagnoses in the neurological field? And of course these can be/ are disabilities. How much overlap is there between the two stats?

Autism is a disability in itself. (As well as an identity and a superpower yada yada).

Massive overlap with autism and trans populations.

Do the stats give info on the % that selected both disability and autism?

I have no idea but bet a pint they don't.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

As a physically disabled person who's probably autistic and the parent of a diagnosed autistic child, I'd be interested in their scope of disabled. Some neuro diverse people identify as disabled, some don't. Some physically disabled people identify as disabled, some don't.

They define disabled as: "The Equality Act (2010) states that a person is disabled if they “have a physical or mental impairment that has a ‘substantial’ and ‘long-term’ negative effect on their ability to do normal daily activities.” The social model of disability model states that people are disabled by barriers in society, not by their impairment or difference. For this reason, not all people protected by the characteristic of ‘disability’ identify as disabled. "

And neurodiverse as:
"The idea that all humans vary in our neurocognitive ability. "

And neurodivergent as:
"The term ‘neurodivergent’ is often used to refer to people who have a variation that is not considered typical by society – for example autism or ADHD."

@NiceGerbil

Do the stats give info on the % that selected both disability and autism?

I have no idea but bet a pint they don't.

Of course they don't.

They do say:

"For quantitative data, the comparison of percentages gives us meaningful, but superficial insights about a wide range of themes covered in the survey. Using the existing data, more focused analysis using appropriate statistical methods to test hypotheses developed using insights from this study, is an essential next step"

And

"Qualitative data from the survey was not analysed in full. However, telling elements from the variety of text responses were picked out to make sense of the quantitative insights"

And I just realised I missed out my favourite quote from the report!

'There were 702 responses to the survey, however 5 responses were ineligible. Four individuals were under 18, and one reported identifying as a hippo."

Going to read the report :)

So far I note:

Methodology.
Online survey.
Recruitment social media and trans orgs.
No indication of any method of confirming respondents in UK. No indication of looking out for multiple submissions from same person.

Note that a small number were from outside the target group. Despite the number being small, their conclusion is their survey was shared widely on SM by those who wanted to skew the data. The idea that might have happened amongst their target group does not seem to have been considered.

In short. Very poor methodology.

Moving on.
The points they make about discrimination around getting employment, housing, and issues with accessing what I assume is general medical care etc.
I think are very likely to be issues and in some cases are illegal.
I support trans orgs working on those areas on illegal discrimination and not being able to access standard medical care.

Similarly I have no doubt that verbal abuse on street and physical attacks are common or at least not uncommon.
I support trans orgs working to reduce that abuse which will invariably be coming from males. Tackling the street harassment and violence by males will be beneficial to the many other groups that are targeted due to being from other protected groups.

'The majority had also witnessed transphobic
content in digital media (97%), print media (97%) and on the radio (85%). At this
point it is relevant to note that we are aware that a number of transphobic
individuals completed the survey with the intention to derail it. Had we
discounted them from the data analysis, these figures would have been higher.'

Higher than 97% from print media? Wow.

Given their demographic I'm surprised that so many young people are reading print media. That's a fascinating statistic.

The word derail is not very professional in this context imo.

However the homeless stats are concerning 27%. I hope that is an area being actively addressed on the ground by trans orgs.

Must admit skimmed the rest looking for their actions/ next steps. Not at end so looked again at the recommendations at the top.

ALL are for things they want others to do. The govt the NHS employers etc.

There are no recommendations for trans orgs in terms of areas to review and check given correct priority/ allocation of resources.

Checked website what they do.

Lobbying, publishing info, consultancy.

I find the lack of recommendations for the groups that support on the ground very peculiar.

Sorry for all the posts. Hope some find it interesting!

I'm sure I read something where one of the lobby groups were basically telling trans people that they were probably disabled if their trans status prevented them living fully. Almost promoting the idea to push up the stats. Similar to them telling trans teens that being trans automatically means suicidal thoughts.

There is clearly a link with Autism or Neurodivergence in the youth but is that because they are more susceptible to being sucked into the gender agenda?
Gender identity now seems the go to reason/cure all for any teen mental health issues.

I do not believe however that the majority of adult males fit this category and once again the children are being used as collateral damage.
Unfortunately no separation or distinction of ages, sex or reasons for being trans is allowed because they don't want the gaping holes and very obvious contradictions in the ideology pointed out.

The latest trend is claiming to suffer multiple personality disorders or tourettes so I would take those figures with a massive pinch of salt.

and one reported identifying as a hippo.

😂

I think it's been clear to many for a long time that anyone with a black/ white way of thinking is vulnerable to this ideology esp children/ young people.

And yes their comments about certain interest groups skewing stats is so biased and tunnel vision it's ludicrous.

I mean tiny example. The encouragement to lie on the census, when it's illegal to do so!