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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I did it. I stepped up!

110 replies

RhubarbCrumbled · 27/09/2021 10:40

I'm in a development day meeting online and someone suggested we should all share our pronouns. I declined and THEY ASKED ME WHY! I asked why I should and was sent a link (sorry, I didn't copy it in time) and advised I read up about it.
I said I didn't share in the belief that required pronouns to be shared in the same way as I wouldn't insist on people sharing their religion. As a woman I felt excluded. And others who had already put up their pronouns removed them. The pressure to do it was removed. Im hoping this means people will think through what they're being asked to do in future!

It's a very shallow post, but usually I wouldn't stand up like this.

OP posts:
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 27/09/2021 11:38

[quote RhubarbCrumbled]@EmbarrassingAdmissions That would be very useful. I was in the middle of it all before I really got my head around what I wanted to say. It was lucky that I was typing rather than in person![/quote]
Good point.

Even better to have a note of something we'd say if challenged and a pre-prepared piece of text if it becomes a 'chat' or email thing?

GreekTragedy · 27/09/2021 11:40

And others who had already put up their pronouns removed them

Oh my god!! Well done you!!

It's not come to my organisation... yet! But I will be copying your lead!l if it does!

deadleaves · 27/09/2021 11:43

Well done. People really do need to start standing up and being counted. Its hard for gender ideologists to maintain the fiction that we are all hate filled phobes when our friends and colleagues know we are GC and know that we are reasonable, respected and likeable people and hear that our views are moderate and well-thought, through.

If we stay silent and unheard we remain the monstrous bogie men the gender ideologists want to portray us as. And everyone thinks everyone else must be on board with the gender stuff.

We really need to speak out now.

ArtemesiaK · 27/09/2021 11:50

Brilliant! Well done for standing up and making a change!

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 27/09/2021 11:52

If we stay silent and unheard we remain the monstrous bogie men the gender ideologists want to portray us as. And everyone thinks everyone else must be on board with the gender stuff.

Preference falsification happens because we don't speak up:

Preference falsification, according to the economist Timur Kuran, is the act of misrepresenting one’s wants under perceived social pressures. It happens frequently in everyday life, such as when we tell the host of a dinner party that we are enjoying the food when we actually find it bland. In Private Truths, Public Lies , Kuran argues convincingly that the phenomenon not only is ubiquitous but has huge social and political consequences. Drawing on diverse intellectual traditions, including those rooted in economics, psychology, sociology, and political science, Kuran provides a unified theory of how preference falsification shapes collective decisions, orients structural change, sustains social stability, distorts human knowledge, and conceals political possibilities.

A common effect of preference falsification is the preservation of widely disliked structures. Another is the conferment of an aura of stability on structures vulnerable to sudden collapse. When the support of a policy, tradition, or regime is largely contrived, a minor event may activate a bandwagon that generates massive yet unanticipated change.

In distorting public opinion, preference falsification also corrupts public discourse and, hence, human knowledge. So structures held in place by preference falsification may, if the condition lasts long enough, achieve increasingly genuine acceptance. The book demonstrates how human knowledge and social structures co-evolve in complex and imperfectly predictable ways, without any guarantee of social efficiency.

www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674707580

AnyOldPrion · 27/09/2021 11:53

I think it’s great, not shallow at all. The fact that others removed theirs afterwards means you spared a number of women from feeling uncomfortable.

And courage calls to courage! Next time, maybe they’ll speak up for themselves.

ArabellaScott · 27/09/2021 11:54

@Keyboardkaterina

Well done! I think the majority think it’s a load of nonsense but are too afraid to say. The more people stand up and say, no, actually, I don’t believe in the ideology that underpins this and I’m not going to participate, the sooner it will all hopefully go away.

I haven’t been asked to do this yet but I’d I am either in my signature or at a meeting I plan simply to say that I don’t wish to participate.

I wonder if a lot of people would be glad to hear OP's very sound reasons for not wanting to add pronouns, too?
ArabellaScott · 27/09/2021 11:55

Preference falsification happens because we don't speak up

Fascinating, thanks.

Chrysanthemum5 · 27/09/2021 11:57

This comes round every 6 months or so in senior management meetings at my work also pops up in cross team meetings. Lots of chat about how it's kind and it doesn't harm anyone. I have my three main reasons why I don't use pronouns ready to go. My actual real reason is pronouns are rohypnol (as shared earlier upthread it's a great read) but work is very woke so I can't take them there yet.

Happy to share
1- it places a barrier in front of people whose first language is not English or whose language doesn't have pronouns. And I prioritise the needs of that large group so don't use pronouns
2 - it places a barrier in front of neurodiverse individuals who are challenged by having to remember things which conflict reality
3 - we work in a sexist environment and research shows women are treated more harshly in environments where there are reminders of biological sex, and I don't think my workplace needs any help from me in being more sexist

Gastonia · 27/09/2021 11:59

And others who had already put up their pronouns removed them.
Years ago, I was in a restaurant with my parents, and the food was terrible. My dad complained politely, the manager was quite rude and said "no-one else has complained." Immediately, the people at the next table complained as well, and then other diners. In fact, it turned out the chef was off that day, but everyone else had sat eating the truly awful food without saying anything! It's so difficult to be the first person to stand up, so I'm very impressed.

Wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 27/09/2021 12:29

Brilliant! It just takes on person saying no to start the ball rolling and you did it.

I wrote an email pointing out:

  • Sexism
  • Stereotype threat
  • That my gender critical beliefs are protected under the Equality Act
WarriorN · 27/09/2021 13:10

Omg this is not a shallow post!

Stealing your reasons for if I'm ever in that situation myself....

Bravo!

WarriorN · 27/09/2021 13:12

We don't make everyone do a prayer before they eat.

In fact in most primary schools, it's "put your hands together if you want to."

So definitely works as an analogy.

Blessex · 27/09/2021 13:13

My pronoun is ‘I’

ablutiions · 27/09/2021 13:17

👏

PaulineScrambledPhones · 27/09/2021 13:17

Was the article you were sent something along the lines of “Why I put pronouns in my signature and why you should too”? My boss keeps emailing me that article. I keep ignoring it.

Toomie · 27/09/2021 13:25

Good job rhubarb! It isn't a small thing at all. Completely agree with all the other posters saying by stepping up you are enabling and allowing others to step up too.

I have not been put in this position yet but the best suggestion I have heard for a go-to response is simply to say "I don't feel comfortable with this" Or the even more breezy "Oh, I don't do pronouns".

If pressed, just say that it's for "Personal reasons that I'd rather not go into a group setting". True but non-confrontational.

Whilst not directly challenging the ideology, it should allow you to avoid giving pronouns. I can't imagine anyone pressing you any further on it and, hopefully, it would enable/allow other people present to politely decline too.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 27/09/2021 13:27

@PaulineScrambledPhones

Was the article you were sent something along the lines of “Why I put pronouns in my signature and why you should too”? My boss keeps emailing me that article. I keep ignoring it.
This? If so, the lies they tell unless there genuinely has been no thought at all to the perspective of others and the wider consequences for accepting some of the pre-requisites for authoritarianism. I note the author is a 'workplace inclusion' strategist which is a fairly large conflict of interest that should have been declared upfront rather than being left as implicit.

For a cisgender person (a person whose gender is in alignment with the sex they were assigned at birth- more on that another time!) there is little to no risk in sharing your pronouns. When you’ve never questioned what pronouns people use for you, or even thought about the idea of pronouns after you learned about them in 2nd grade, sharing your pronouns on digital profiles is easy and costs you nothing.

medium.com/gender-inclusivit/why-i-put-pronouns-on-my-email-signature-and-linkedin-profile-and-you-should-too-d3dc942c8743

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 27/09/2021 13:43

Well done.

I dropped one of the DC at uni this weekend, and saw a lot of fresher's reps. About a third of the girls were wearing 'She/Her' badges. Not a single one of the boys was troubling with 'He/Him'.

Evidence it it were ever needed that females are socialised from birth to beeee kiiiind and think first of others, before even applying critical thinking skills.

Shedbuilder · 27/09/2021 13:49

Well done, Rhubarb. You showed some bravery and look what happened — other people took their pronouns off and joined you on the front line. I hope someone leaves you a cake or some flowers on your desk tomorrow as a sign of solidarity. You're not alone. I'd bet that the vast majority of your colleagues agree with you.

Blessex · 27/09/2021 13:51

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman good observation

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 27/09/2021 13:52

Well done OP, that's awesome 👏

As an aside I find it quite sinister that in order for an organisation to be seen as inclusive to a small minority (not even a protected characteristic) when declining to use pronouns you were literally requested to go away and educate yourself.

What other group in society is afforded this level of TLC.?

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 27/09/2021 13:53

and I love that others removed theirs once you declined and questioned.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 27/09/2021 13:54

Love that quote Arabella

MistandMud · 27/09/2021 13:58

I am ancient enough that 'Oh, I'm a bit old for all that. Whatever you like' has worked quite well.

With my children, on the other hand, asking for a gender list and identifying keenly as a panromantic demiboi was quite enough to get them off the subject. Clearly they also think I'm too old for all that.

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