Labour have committed to single sex spaces

[flumpetto]

Excluding trans

This is a step in the right direction at long last....

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-trans-women-labour-b1924832.html

'Mulling this over, it occurs to me that I have never looked at the performative femininity of men claiming womanhood and thought it was the same as feminine behaviour in women.'

Thats because its nothing like 'feminine' behaviour in women. Men mimic the outward physical appearance, or try to.

I agree, for me it's just another way of being male. I don't see it having anything to do with women.

Give an inch, a mile is wanted then 2 miles then 7 miles and on and on until women have nothing and cannot even leave the house.

Well, let's also remember that this week we have seen Mairi Hunter encourage activists to take the 'transwomen are adult human females' approach too after the horror show that was Ed Davey and co over the weekend.

Hunter encourages anyone who is now asked how they define woman to use adult human female and to then state that transwomen are indeed, female.

This is an MP. Encouraging that we go back to the denial of biological reality.

How is this going to play out to those vulnerable people who will fully believe this? Are we again going to have a transman refusing to understand that they could be pregnant and not letting A&E staff know that they are female? Are we going to have another transman go through six months of extensive testing and nearly dying without telling their medical team they should be looking at the female ranges to compare results to?

Are we going to have males neglecting to tell their doctors that they should probably not receive blood from a female donor who has been pregnant before?

This type of 'gotcha' can only work to endanger people and to cause harm, yet is being lauded by prominent trans spokes people.

And the end result will be that even if stated that something is 'single sex', there will be this continued lack of awareness from males that their presence either immediately, or later, in those spaces is causing significant harm.

And it seems that this particular issue doesn't even register to this group of males, that there is legitimacy to women's and girl's needs. Which means that if any woman or girl says no!, it should be taken that no means no and consent has been withdrawn, if indeed it was ever given! (I don't ever remember giving my permission in the first place, and to my knowledge, I did not authorise any other woman to give away more permission either.)

Nothing personal, it simply means that the needs of those vulnerable women and girls should have, and always have, the priority.

www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/pteva2/jess_phillips_labour_mp_doubles_down_on_terf/

There's a thread here where transwomen are arguing that they really are female apparently based on the logic that it is too hurtful for them not to be. One trans man who accepts he is female is being hugely downvoted.

I suspected straight away that the meaning of the Labour statement would end up being twisted according to definitions that are being fought over.

Oh dear, looks like it's more fence sitting and obfuscation. How depressing.

Don't count on Labour to address the problem clearly therefore they will make the situation worse.

That is rather grim reading Ghosts

I hear from everyone that I can't be biologically female. I look more passably "woman" than Jess Phillips, yet I'm sat here ready to resign myself.
Like... Yes... I was born with the wrong body... Stop defining me by this disgusting fucking reality.
I don't want to hate anyone. I don't even know why this has got me so riled up. I think I feel frustrated. Like I'm just never going to be taken seriously.
For fucks sake I've already gone through the stress and pain of transitioning. WHY IS THAT NEVER GOOD ENOUGH!?
I just don't understand!!! I'VE ALREADY DONE ALL THE LEGWORK MYSELF, WHY IS IT TOO MUCH TO ASK THAT I JUST BE TREATED LIKE ANY OTHER FUCKING WOMAN!?

Again we have the 'more womanly' than those women, as well as not being able to accept reality in any way.

This is something I see quite often on other social media platforms. These people simply cannot accept that women say no to them. That women wish to be able to define themselves in a way that does not include males.

One of those posts actually does refer to it as 'think of it like hair colour', eventually people will perceive you as what you want to be perceived as if you simply persist. Like sex is just as unimportant as hair colour.

For fucks sake I've already gone through the stress and pain of transitioning. WHY IS THAT NEVER GOOD ENOUGH!?

Because other women's lives and needs do not revolve all around you.

Have additional provision. Have all the additional provisions. Add mixed sex options to womens everything.

Just have the basic decency and capacity for tolerance for others to permit female people the resources they need as well as everything you want. I don't at this point care if you call it 'the evil witch space' so long as you don't just disenfranchise and exclude them.

Interesting how little the males that think they pass invisibly in female spaces understand about how women respond to perceived threats

I look more passably "woman" than Jess Phillips

?

Stop defining me by this disgusting fucking reality.

That isn’t a choice anyone has. People deal with far worse realities than a sexed body.

Someone can only perceive themselves as looking more womanly than a biological woman if they have bought into stereotypes of what women should look like, and I guess what makes them a woman. Cue, it's not Lipstick and tits.

Because other women's lives and needs do not revolve all around you.

yes.... rather....

@Theeyeballsinthesky

twitter.com/nadiawhittomemp/status/1440690835767513101?s=21

Exactly as we suspected

That’s very clear. TWAW.

That is rather grim readingGhosts

The whole thread is a masterclass in people who can't cope with reality trying to build a ladder out of phrases and redefined words to climb their way out of it.

The trans man who insists that tw are male is told they have to say "assigned male at birth", as if it was just a mistake by the stupid midwife, and yet there's such a focus on getting cross-sex hormones, presumable to make the body look less "assigned male at birth". I mean, what power that midwife had.

And the constant berating of Jess for "seeming so reasonable".

And nuttery like this: "Women are not discriminated upon based on biological sexAT ALL, we're discriminated against for being women." Guess someone had better let those afab folks in Afghanistan in on the secret.

Just a correction. Mhairi Hunter is a Glasgow City SNP Councillor. However, she is a close colleague of our First Minister and has a lot of influence.

@Ghostsintheshelf

www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/pteva2/jess_phillips_labour_mp_doubles_down_on_terf/

There's a thread here where transwomen are arguing that they really are female apparently based on the logic that it is too hurtful for them not to be. One trans man who accepts he is female is being hugely downvoted.

I suspected straight away that the meaning of the Labour statement would end up being twisted according to definitions that are being fought over.

Interesting that on another thread on that transgender Reddit they're saying that KS's statement shows that he's transphobic.

Shows what a (not) good job he's done of saying sod all.

I'd support the provision of self-ID on principle simply because the GRA was always an incomplete hackjob that happened to be quite useful within the paradigm of the time, but I'm not sure how to square the circle and make everyone happy, and I'm not convinced there's a way to avoid the 'Brexit effect' of crystallised reactionary stances and catastrophising hyperbole from both sides overwhelming any attempts to seriously conduct a discussion about consequences.

The current "paradigm" has been documented extensively by women over the past few years.

I suggest you stop characterizing women as "reactionary forces" and read some of it. It's not "catastrophising hyperbole".

If everything you know about what women have put forward is second hand from those that describe it that way then you are crystalline already.

Mimmybirthingperson tweeting about the Prosecco stormfront might appeal to your existing prejudice but mimmybirthingperson has a vested interest in stopping people listening to parents and women that disagree.

@334bu

Just a correction. Mhairi Hunter is a Glasgow City SNP Councillor. However, she is a close colleague of our First Minister and has a lot of influence.

My mistake. I was away from my Pc and did not check.

Thank you 334bu.

I, for one, am not interested in anything MimmyBirthingParent has to say, after she tried to divert a thread about whether putting posters up of unlabelled QR codes about women's refuges (meaning an abused woman who scanned it would have it in her browsing history) could endanger abused women with controlling partners who checked web history, into her personal monomania about trans issues.

twitter.com/HanoverHussy/status/1376802399323570180?s=19

[quote PurgatoryOfPotholes]I, for one, am not interested in anything MimmyBirthingParent has to say, after she tried to divert a thread about whether putting posters up of unlabelled QR codes about women's refuges (meaning an abused woman who scanned it would have it in her browsing history) could endanger abused women with controlling partners who checked web history, into her personal monomania about trans issues.

twitter.com/HanoverHussy/status/1376802399323570180?s=19[/quote]
Jesus Christ. Why can't these people accept the word of people who work in the field, who have actual experience of what they're talking about? It's absurd.

I really am sick to the back teeth of left politicians, particularly female ones, pushing their appalling message that all good and trendy women champion and facilitate male interests vigorously over female ones.

While loudly decrying women who dare to talk about female issues, female needs, the vulnerable and marginalised women who cannot just leap into this privileged mummy-saviour role.

It's fantastically sexist. Unbelievably sexist. It's the bastion of overprivileged women busy seeking approval from male people even more privileged with absolutely no bloody idea what life is like for women, particularly the kind of women they've never met and have absolutely no interest in the lives and experiences of. And feel absolutely zero sisterhood or commonality or even basic interest in.

For someone who has taken a role of public office and responsibility it is an appalling failure.

Clearly MimmyBirthingParent will wage war on behalf of anything with a trans flag on it, whatever it is. It's mindless football tribalism.

He's fence-sitting.

Never forget that Labour is committed to bringing in self-ID.

I'm hoping Starmer is pressed on the issue in his conference interviews. I wish just one interviewer would ask 'how can you have a single sex space if any man can self identify into it'.

@ArabellaScott

The time I encountered a transwoman in the ladies toilets, I just put my head down and got out as quickly and unobtrusively as possible. As a fairly naive teenage girl, I was confused at what was going on, but I wasn't naive enough to not know that I had to be careful not to antagonise a larger, older male in a confined space, at any cost.

Because women and girls learn self preservation very, very young.

I wonder what the transwoman's account of that experience might be, compared to how I recall it?

Same thing happened to me. I stuck a false smile on just to appease and got out ASAP.

In common with many PPs, it's too little, too late: I cannot trust Labour. Even if Keir means what he says (and I am sceptical), there will be so many MPs and activists trying to undermine him that his position on this may not be tenable.

I cannot vote LibDem or Green. I did vote Labour at the last GE, but only because I thought they had no chance of winning. I won't dare to vote Labour again. I despise Boris and what the Tory party has become; I have never voted Conservative, but nothing is more important to me than women's rights.