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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Mridul Wadhwa

133 replies

PostingForTheFirstTime · 21/09/2021 11:13

thecritic.co.uk/unclean/

"Feminist women were, therefore, keen to hear what would be said at this latest talk before women’s sector professionals working with victims and survivors of sexual and domestic abuse.

I hadn’t expected the content to be so blatantly aggressive towards the decades of work of feminist women in the field of male violence against women. After a wandering preamble about intersectionality, Wadhwa announced that Rape Crisis history was unclean."

OP posts:
SapphosRock · 21/09/2021 14:02

I think what angers me the most is that rape survivors have likely already been lied to and gaslighted before they approach a rape crisis service. They have probably been told by their abuser and even friends and family that the rape was consensual sex or it never happened. Some will not have a single person who believes them or whom they can trust.

Rape survivors already need a very deep conviction that they are right and the perpetrators are wrong before they can even approach a female only recovery service.

To then have that female only service run by a male CEO and to have males welcomed into the group recovery sessions is additional trauma. I am not sure how many rape survivors are strong enough to keep the conviction that they are right and the perpetrators are wrong when they are being lied to by the very organisations that are supposed to help them.

Grellbunt · 21/09/2021 14:19

I am sickened at what is happening in Scotland. This is a country that, sadly, is still full of toxic masculinity, sexism and real vicious bigotry and hatred - but the Scottish Govt is in some kind of fantasy la la land where this is our biggest issue.

futureghost · 21/09/2021 14:25

@Grellbunt

I am sickened at what is happening in Scotland. This is a country that, sadly, is still full of toxic masculinity, sexism and real vicious bigotry and hatred - but the Scottish Govt is in some kind of fantasy la la land where this is our biggest issue.
Well having lived in Scotland my whole adult life until recently, my view is that under the SNP government the goal has been to present Scotland as an enlightened utopia, so they would not want to admit there is sexism or toxic masculinity or bigotry. I have not doubt that NS has jumped on this as a way to showcase Scotland's 'progressive' credentials. Indeed in my letter to Joanna Cherry, the reply I got (from her office staff and apparently before she got her head around this issue) said that Scotland's goal was to be the most progressive country in the world on this issue. This is entirely about 'brand Scotland'.
Grellbunt · 21/09/2021 14:29

Also having grown up around girls and women from some of the most deprived areas of Scotland, and having seen the sexual and physical violence, the lack of any respect and daily economic hardship they face I find it staggering that someone like this dares to call those girls and women "privileged".

Grellbunt · 21/09/2021 14:32

Especially as some of those women wouldn't even think of approaching a rape crisis centre in the first place, the violence and abuse they face is so endemic it probably wouldn't even occur to them that this isn't normal and that they deserve help and kindness themselves.

I'm so angry.

CreepingDeath · 21/09/2021 14:44

@Grellbunt

I am sickened at what is happening in Scotland. This is a country that, sadly, is still full of toxic masculinity, sexism and real vicious bigotry and hatred - but the Scottish Govt is in some kind of fantasy la la land where this is our biggest issue.
I lived in Scotland for several years and loved it. However, I agree with you, and it reminds me of Ireland in many ways - the push to promote ourselves as some liberal utopia by the government and media which doesn't reflect actual society.

Either ignoring or forgetting the deep rooted sexism and many ways in which women have been historically discriminated by the church and state.

I do think there is also the factor of Independence, and the need to show how Scotland can forge its own identity away from the UK. I see this in Ireland also, we are so quick to point out how we do things differently from England, with the inference being 'better'. It's nauseating.

Grellbunt · 21/09/2021 14:53

Don't get me wrong. Life can be great for women - some women. But there are still massive issues if you scratch the surface. Even for those of us who are relatively privileged (you can even make FM - if you play by the rules...). For many in poverty and in less tolerant communities life must be very difficult.

Jaysmith71 · 21/09/2021 14:54

As Renton said in Trainspotting (1996):

"Times Change. People Change. Soon, there'll be no men and no women. ....Just wankers."

KittenKong · 21/09/2021 14:58

All men then?

Grellbunt · 21/09/2021 15:12

The very fact that Trainspotting (private schoolboy in lead role playing working class lad anyone?) is so feted, rather than being seen as a damning indictment of the mess some communities are in, is proof of the state of denial that Scotland's chattering classes are in.

allmywhat · 21/09/2021 15:13

Can't help seeing the religious dimension to all this talk of cleaning and purifying

...of rape victims.

Yes. And it casts a new and even creepier light on Wadhwa's interest in the topic of rape victims having orgasms during rape.

Well, agents of the patriarchy have always tried to blame and gaslight rape victims. And in particular, representatives of patriarchal religions have treated the victims of rape as unclean while ignoring or condoning the perpetrators. What was that line Graham Linehan used? Meet the new priests, same as the old prriests.

Jaysmith71 · 21/09/2021 15:17

@Grellbunt

The very fact that Trainspotting (private schoolboy in lead role playing working class lad anyone?) is so feted, rather than being seen as a damning indictment of the mess some communities are in, is proof of the state of denial that Scotland's chattering classes are in.
In fact, most of that notorious line was nicked from Gregory's Girl, impeccably proletarian production, raided by John Hodge and Andrew MacDonald, a pair of poshies.
Fariha31 · 21/09/2021 15:18

@Grellbunt

The very fact that Trainspotting (private schoolboy in lead role playing working class lad anyone?) is so feted, rather than being seen as a damning indictment of the mess some communities are in, is proof of the state of denial that Scotland's chattering classes are in.
We need a like button, and quick.
Grellbunt · 21/09/2021 15:19

Doesn't suprise me at all.

Anyway back to MW.

Jaysmith71 · 21/09/2021 15:21

Can't leave this out:

terryleather · 21/09/2021 15:30

@Grellbunt

I am sickened at what is happening in Scotland. This is a country that, sadly, is still full of toxic masculinity, sexism and real vicious bigotry and hatred - but the Scottish Govt is in some kind of fantasy la la land where this is our biggest issue.
Those problems and others such as drug and alcohol addiction and poor mental health are deeply entrenched and incredibly difficult to tackle without huge amounts of time, money and resources.

Any headway made would probably take years to come to fruition.

That's no use to politicians who want quick cheap fixes or failing that a glittery rainbow smokescreen that makes them look good and costs next to nothing to implement and gives your halo an extra glow too...that's if you don't count the cost to women and girls and who cares about those privileged whiners anyway?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, with some notable exceptions the Scottish Government are an out and out fucking disgrace.

ludothedog · 21/09/2021 15:32

What can we do about MW? No point writing to my MSP. She is SNP and completely enthralled. Doesn't even reply to concerns.

We all know where our glorious leader stands on the subject of MW, they are great friends and women's concerns are not valid. Fuck, I'm going to have to vote conservative next time.

What about other actions? I'm ready to go marching in the bloody streets about this disgrace of a human being. I mean, if you have no empathy for victims of rape..... wtaf

Jaysmith71 · 21/09/2021 15:45

The Scottish Conservatives were thinking about changing their name a while back to disociate themselves from Westminster, Thatcher et al. In the last Holyrood poll, they were mostly known as "Ruth Davidson."

Scottish Unionists?

(They are officially The Conservative and Unionist Party.)

andyoldlabour · 21/09/2021 15:47

If any other person in any organisation, had deliberately used deception to get a job, then boasted about it several times publicly, they would be instantly dismissed and marched off the premises.

Anotheruser02 · 21/09/2021 16:17

@ludothedog

What can we do about MW? No point writing to my MSP. She is SNP and completely enthralled. Doesn't even reply to concerns.

We all know where our glorious leader stands on the subject of MW, they are great friends and women's concerns are not valid. Fuck, I'm going to have to vote conservative next time.

What about other actions? I'm ready to go marching in the bloody streets about this disgrace of a human being. I mean, if you have no empathy for victims of rape..... wtaf

Me too. I keep thinking with all of the sunlight and more people peaking something big will happen.
Grellbunt · 21/09/2021 16:23

You need to get the Sunday Post involved.

ifIwerenotanandroid · 21/09/2021 16:40

This meeting was held in Sheffield, wasn't it? Does this mean that RCC in England are up for following the Scottish model?

CharlieParley · 21/09/2021 16:59

This is also someone who grew up with enormous privilege - not merely male, but from a wealthy family. In that first acceptance speech for the LGBT Award in 2015, MW speaks of the family diamonds (jokingly, but the joke isn't about the family diamonds). Attended private school in India, then university there, then came to the UK to study (that's serious money to pay for fees for may years), then worked here for a while, returned to India, transitioned privately (again, serious money needed), talks about parents pressuring local magistrates to get a female passport etc.

MW likes to talk about being a migrant BAME woman, which gives the impression of someone living in poverty all their lives. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Grellbunt · 21/09/2021 17:02

@CharlieParley

This is also someone who grew up with enormous privilege - not merely male, but from a wealthy family. In that first acceptance speech for the LGBT Award in 2015, MW speaks of the family diamonds (jokingly, but the joke isn't about the family diamonds). Attended private school in India, then university there, then came to the UK to study (that's serious money to pay for fees for may years), then worked here for a while, returned to India, transitioned privately (again, serious money needed), talks about parents pressuring local magistrates to get a female passport etc.

MW likes to talk about being a migrant BAME woman, which gives the impression of someone living in poverty all their lives. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Exactly
toomanytrees · 21/09/2021 17:11

If any other person in any organisation, had deliberately used deception to get a job, then boasted about it several times publicly, they would be instantly dismissed and marched off the premises.

He supposedly used deception only once: at the Forth Valley Rape Crisis Centre. The Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre knew exactly who they were getting. The responsibility lies with the members of the boards of directors who hired him. The reality is that two groups of women (the boards) at two different organizations hired him. The current ERCC board seems unwilling or unable to deal with it. The real question is why. This issue is much bigger than MW.