IOC kick release of new trans guidelines into next year

[CatsOperatingInGangs]

“We’re very aware that sex, of course, is not binary. It’s a continuum. The sectors overlap. And so the solutions are not essentially going to be binary.”

FFS

www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/sep/20/conflicting-opinions-iocs-transgender-guidelines-delayed-again-until-2022

I'll just be tuning into the equestrian events then.

Because this would be easy to prove the negative -most sports will have years of data showing that people with male levels of testosterone have a significant advantage over females.

But they weren't "women-gendered" males. The IOC says restrictions "should be based on data collected from a demographic group that is consistent in gender".

Can't use the data from non-woman-gendered males.

The IOC and everyone involved in writing this word salad should be thoroughly ashamed. There is no justification at all for this approach.

I shall confine myself to saying I'm really angry about this.

Data usually proves what it is asked to prove and if that does not fit the narrative, other studies are found.

How can we get this quote repeated in the media.. 'World Athletics has in fact done a longitudinal study comparing performance of biologically female and biologically male athletes, which we call the world records.'

This is not just about watching sport, it is about participation, funding and respect for women and their human right to compete on a level playing field.

Right now, the highest paid male football players receive salaries that are greater than the sum of the top 1,693 female players globally. In the UK the average female player in the Women's Super League is paid less than 1% of pf the average male Premier League player.

This is not about advertising, who brings in the money, it is ingrained mysogny and sexual inequality.

Girls will not be given opportunities to play, train and be supported in sport, they will not have female role models they can aspire to. This will have a huge impact on grass root sports in all countries across the globe. Someone needs to provide balance to this discussion.

Sport is not about gender identity, it is about biology. The CAS judgement on the IAAF ruling recognised the need for separation on the basis of sex. We cannot throw this out and along with it, the sporting endeavours of 50% of the population so that less than 1% of the population who identify as trans can feel validated in this arena.

Can't use the data from non-woman-gendered males.

Yes I suspect this will be the case. Meaning that any studies that currently exist comparing men and women will not count and they will have to start again with studies comparing men who call themselves women with women and if they are studying elite athletes they will end up having to compare elite women with mediocre males.

I like this from twitter...

"disproportionate advantage"

A head start of 10 but not 20m?
Only a small motor on a bike?
Micro-dosing not full-blown doping?
Endogenous T but not exogenous?

I'm so fucking pissed off about this latest bollox from the IOC. Women are being gaslighted, abused and discriminated against in international sport. This is legitimising discrimination. It's got a little slot halfway down a website, under the heading trans sport. What about women's fucking sport? Where is the front page news and outrage from the media? A high-profile sportswoman is going to have to bring these bastards down.

You could apply this deconstructionism to any classification. Why are they restricting it to sex?

They could decide that weight classifications are now based on weight self-ID, and people who ID as a lower weight should be permitted by default.

And any restriction on them cannot be based on their "transweight identity", and you can only use data collected from people consistent in (self ID) weight.

Going to need a new study on the performance of 120kg people who call themselves 80kg in the 80kg category.

Are natal females allowed to set new world records or might that indicate they have a disproportionate advantage against other competitors in an all female race?

There doesn't seem to be any indication that only males can have disproportionate advantage. What a bloody mess.

I am reminded of that scene in the Incredibles where the family is cheering on Dash at athletics, but don't want him to use his super power speed too much.

Interview on R4 PM starting at 5.44pm between Evan Davies and Joanna Harper, who sounded cagey as hell.

Why is the BBC still allowing “cisgender” to go unchallenged in interviews like that? I know it was Evan Davies interviewing, who’s not exactly on top of this debate, but still. Most listeners would have little idea what on earth was actually being discussed. At the very least, bringing sex clearly into the discussion would have helped.

I can’t get over the utter dishonesty and craven capitulation from the IOC here. Gutting.

This is as I said just a massive cop out.

They have (understandably tbh even though I think they're misogynist wankers) just thought this is way too contraversial and messy. Whatever we do will be seen as outrageous discrimination. So fuck it.

They already had massive issues with DSD athletes in women's sports which was v contraversial. Separate topic to this but related.

I think they hoped they could get away with setting a high t level for males in women's sports. That would make the DSD athletes issues go away. And all aok.

Of course women getting shouty. And men as well as it's so obvious that apart from DSD individuals, the male female division is long in place, accepted, and obviously a straightforward split. And everyone pretty much knows why and yep fair.

From what I've read they have said fuck it. Default is TW self ID in everything. Go and sort it out amongst yourselves (sports bodies) it's a messy awful thing and we don't want to be involved.

So.

Self ID in no restrictions IOC.

Sports bodies can set restrictions if they have peer reviewed scientific backing. (Massive issues with that just loads money practicality push back counter studies etc). For Olympics that means all around world agree same rules. Well that's never going to happen is it.

So having restrictions is imo pretty much impossible in practice.

So reverts to default. Self id males in women's sports the end. And just realised. Where bodies in whichever country. UK Canada, India etc etc.. Have restrictions currently. Given that winning as many olympic medals as possible is a huge huge deal. Loads of countries will surely just field males. I mean. Obviously.

That's right I think? If a country wants any chance of success in women's sports then that's what they will need to do.

So you'll have for certain China Russia etc just fielding males. And any country that fields females will have them clumped together at the bottom of the results.

Unless I'm missing something? Anyone got anything where my thinking is wonky there?

Because at the moment this whole thing looks like... No other possible way it's going to go.

I just saw this on the news and had to come here to say WTAF? I have nothing more eloquent right now. Have I stepped into an alternate reality?

Will there be any rules at all anymore?? Does this mean that a man can just self-ID as a woman and he won't have to do anything before he competes in women's categories at the Olympics? If so, can we find some athletically-mediocre but fair-minded male athletes who would be willing to put themselves forward in women's sports (and probably win medals) just to highlight the absurdity once and for all?

They have passed it to the sports to decide the rules. How that is supposed to work internationally with Olympics is... ???!??

No need to find blokes to do that. China Russia and more I'm sure will do it obv. Why wouldn't they?

"sex, of course, is not binary"

Of course?!?!?!!?!?!?!

Look up the IOC man they put in the news- he's the IOC chief medical person and something else flashy.

Dr .. something.

The shit he's come out with (been told to say) is off the scale...

Here's his name and a good quote...

www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/30/ioc-admits-guidelines-for-transgender-athletes-are-not-fit-for-purpose
'“There is some research, but it depends on whether you are coming from the view of inclusion as the first priority or absolute fairness to the nth degree being the priority,” he said. “If you don’t want to take any risks at all that anyone might have an advantage, then you just stop everybody. If you are prepared to extrapolate from the evidence there is, and consider the fact the have been no openly transgender women at the top level until now, I think the threat to women’s sport has probably been overstated.”'

The terms 'inclusion' and 'olympic athlete' don't really fit together do they

@CheeseMmmm

Here's his name and a good quote...

www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/30/ioc-admits-guidelines-for-transgender-athletes-are-not-fit-for-purpose
'“There is some research, but it depends on whether you are coming from the view of inclusion as the first priority or absolute fairness to the nth degree being the priority,” he said. “If you don’t want to take any risks at all that anyone might have an advantage, then you just stop everybody. If you are prepared to extrapolate from the evidence there is, and consider the fact the have been no openly transgender women at the top level until now, I think the threat to women’s sport has probably been overstated.”'

Oh god I just want to shake him and make him watch the BBC documentary "The Unfair Games" about the troubles with Paralympic classifications.

The level of competition both for the individual athletes and the countries competing is fierce. So for instance, when one classification changed to allow a similar but slightly less disabling condition in who had an advantage over those with the original condition covered by the classification, individuals with that condition were scouted and trained. It is ruthless.

And the documentry I thought was very fair minded about showing the multitude of people that were disadvantaged by changes to classifications rather than demonise one group.

It's embarrassing to be reclassified as more disabled than you were and suddenly be "competing" against those much more disabled than you, it feels like cheating and can lose someone their sporting career - even when it wasn't their fault.

The idea that somehow classification around gender identities is going to be less problematic is very naive.

People should compete based on their sex, not their gender identity, and if they do not wish to do that, maybe elite level sports isn't important enough to them.

It does not mean they cannot be known by their preferred name, pronouns and wear what they want. It just means they compete fairly.

I really can't recommend this documentary enough for people concerned about classification in sports.

It really feels like a 360 degree view of how complicated the issue is and how it effects athletes.

Panorama, Paralympics: The Unfair Games?: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000wwdd via @bbciplayer