Who do the transgender activists actually represent?

[FrustratinglyIrrational]

From my interactions with transgender women in normal life, I get the impression that many are just trying to get on with their lives quietly, and have no desire to make women uncomfortable. They feel unrepresented and embarrassed by the activist movement, and are nothing like the entitled bullies screaming all over social media. So who are all these people pushing the "trans agenda"? I don't believe they have the best interests of gender dysphoric people at heart, because their actions are doing a huge amount of damage to the public perception of that group, and they must be aware of that. They are giving very tolerant people good reasons to become less tolerant. And then claiming that tolerance for transgender people is at an all-time low, and that we should therefore acquiesce to their every demand. Are these activists not ultimately the biggest oppressors of the people they claim to represent?

100% agree with you on this. How does redefining sex and saying sex is a spectrum etc help anyone. The end game in mind is far more than just advocating for trans people.

It's because their motivation isn't pro-trans it's anti-women.

They don't mid throwing transpeople under the bus - and drive it back and forth a few times - if it means women are brought down a peg or two.

There will be different motivations. Some TRAs are motivated by misogyny, some are just misguided and have fallen for a facile, shallow idea that we must be kind without ever questioning anyone. This kindness doesn't extend to women and children harmed by poorly evidenced medical pathways, by the erosion of safeguarding or the removal of women's rights to privacy, dignity and choice, of course.

So yes, underlying it is a sometimes unconscious belief that women are lesser than males, that makes must be considered first before women and that a male's comfort matters more than a woman's. I don't know if I'd call this misogyny in each individual case, it's sometimes a reflection of how society is set up.

@IAmASpiderPlant

It's because their motivation isn't pro-trans it's anti-women.

They don't mid throwing transpeople under the bus - and drive it back and forth a few times - if it means women are brought down a peg or two.

This exactly. This about hating women and not seeing them as worthy of safety, boundaries or a voice.

It's illustrated clearly in the posing with guns, the obsession with promoting 'sex work' and the demonising of even the words used to describe females.
If it was truly about Transgender people you'd hear much more about Transmen. They'd also focus their activism on more research into hormones and surgery, more specialist clinics and fight for their own specialist refuges, Rape crisis centres and bathrooms.

I think they're generally just common or garden men's rights types, repurposed. I.e just motivated by dislike/hatred or women, concious or otherwise. Mummy issues, basically.

Agreed, under the trans umbrella they take these people with a very real condition who deserve our understanding and mash them into a big trans patty with every cross dresser, every man with autogynephilia, every opportunistic sex offender who wants to identify into a safer group to operate in plain sight. We don't want to be a sub set of the same as these other people, I don't imagine they would either.

Fear.
They are scared of what Trans people represent... being different. So by pretending Transwomen are women, they don't have to accept that they may have a 'feminine' side.

Pure acceptance would be people being able to express themselves however they want without having a label.

I have mixed views on this. Yes, it’s possible most trans people are just trying to get on with their lives, and feel unrepresented and embarrassed by the activist movement. This is unfortunate. But if this is the case, what are they doing about it? In the last few years aggressive trans activism and its misogyny and homophobia has led to the growth and development of FPFW, Sex Matters, LGB Alliance, to name a few. They’ve been borne in the face of abuse, hate, threats of violence, aggressive tactics and so on. There are single voices, some of whom are great at standing up to the bullies like Fionne Orlander, but if there is a large body of trans people who don’t feel like they are represented by those with the loudest voices, then the only way that will change is if they organise themselves into an opposing group to do so. Groups defending women’s rights have managed it, so I don’t see why a group championing the silent majority of trans people who don’t align themselves with aggressive TRAs can’t do it either.

What are the explanations as to why that hasn’t happened? As far as I can see there are only a few explanations.

1. their numbers are too small and the majority do actually think JK Rowling is the devil or

2. their numbers are great, but they’re too scared to organise themselves, in which case they can’t complain if they don’t feel represented and can’t expect those defending women’s rights to defend their rights also by proxy.

A trans organisation that protects the values of those with gender dysphoria, who hold the view that is pejoratively known as “truscum”, who believe in the realities of biological sex, who are against transwomen in women’s sport, prisons etc, would be very welcome. It would be interesting to see people like Owen Jones tie themselves in knots about whether to condemn them or not.

But no one else can do it for them.

I don’t think there’s 1 reason.

Some people will have fallen for the bekind stuff and the Mermaids-generated suicide stats (usually women by my experience)

Some people enjoy riding the power trip of being part of an online ‘woke’ mob

For some it will be performative, in order to show off their ‘inclusiveness’ and stop their peers turning on them through a lack of obvious agreement

Some hate women (usually men who feel slighted by them in some way, or the type who think men are ‘second to women these days’) and enjoy harassing/intimidating women under the guise of ‘protecting the vulnerable’ Owen Jones

@Sonarl

I think they're generally just common or garden men's rights types, repurposed. I.e just motivated by dislike/hatred or women, concious or otherwise. Mummy issues, basically.

I have always thought that this is to do with mother issues.

Simple answer is they represent themselves. After almost two hundred years of political liberalisation, starting with the Great Reform Act of 1832 and ending with the Marriage Act of 2013, they don't think we're done yet and see this as the next wave.

Some want to ride the wave. Others are afraid it will engulf them and so are desperate to get on the 'right side' of it. It's a peculiar mix of radical left and classic Peel Tamworth Manifesto conservatism.

I think some would rally behind whatever flag is flavour of the month - as long as they don’t have to actually do anything, and get to chant, be melodramatic and bully people. Would the speak up for environmentalists murders - hundreds worldwide every year? Nah, not pretty enough, not glamorous a bit too grim.

The don’t seem to look in-depth into the arguments. It’s ‘campaigning lite’.

Several reasons - some uninformed and naive, some just plain old sheep/bullies.

This is definitely muddying the waters for transsexuals.

As others have said, in the same way that trans isn't one thing, then trans activism isn't one thing. Take for example trans activist parents who have decided that their children are trans. The most aggressive of them seem to be involved in a displacement activity to avoid thinking the unthinkable, that maybe their child could desist with a watchful waiting approach. That maybe their child is heading down a treatment path that might ultimately be harmful.

I think for some, especially in the media and arts, there's that Littlefinger 'chaos is a ladder' thing going on. The youth-activist bandwagon is something many self-promoters hitch themselves to for a quick and easy ride into 'public life'. It doesn't take much - slag off JKR, say Karen and T*RF, put pronouns prominently in bio, ask teens to give their pocket money to Mermaids, and lo, you're now down with the kids who you want to buy your YA/watch your Netflix show, with thousands more followers and a shower of hearts. Nick Cohen's Observer piece yesterday and the earlier Radio 4 programme The Purity Spiral are good on the way some in the arts are using cancel culture as a way to eliminate the competition.

Reminds me of the one in America who filmed a church ‘outing’ of their child. All over social media.

Bringing ‘her’ up to the lectern, tears and cheers. Small boy led up before the congregation in a dress. Introduced as a girl. Praise be! So much praise and excitement for this mum and child.

Not long after, mum admits ‘oops, no it’s a boy...’ and I am sure there are many other parents who won’t admit this (for whatever reasons).

Is the distinction between 'transwomen just trying to get on with their lives' and 'transactivists' as clear cut as we sometimes believe?

I mean, who was it in 2004 who campaigned for the GRA and the legal recognition of gender reassignment? (Not rhetorical - a genuine question). Mtf transitioners have used female toilets for years, without ever requesting their own facilities because they were concerned for women.

There is still a belief among the old-school trans community that one has a 'gendered brain' and that one can 'live as a man' and 'live as a woman' in a way that is separate from biological reality. These views are to the detriment of society, particularly to women, no matter how much sympathy one may feel for an individual suffering from gender dysphoria.

The TRAs take all of the beliefs of the old-school trans community to their logical conclusions. Tbh, I think all the TRAs have done is shone a spotlight on the whole ideology and many of us, who previously gave it little thought but were broadly sympathetic, are now questioning the premise on which the entire ideology is based.

They all seem to think we are in the US... back of the bus, segregated loos and drinking fountains, Jim Crow laws etc all being thrown around (by supposedly U.K. based people). Odd.

This thread has some interesting information about where this movement came from.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007

The second post on that thread is about what Press for Change have been campaigning for since the 90s. It's pure TRA from an organisation campaigning for transsexuals. This has been going on for a long time.

I'm always struck by the number that are not actually trans themselves, they just presume to speak for them. Sometimes those same people have a murky past as trans abusers. Strange that these people never seem to be hauled up for it by their own side, which is another indication that Trans Rights are not the real concern of TRAs.

Many trans people in this country are getting on with their own lives and wishing to God these mouthy hijackers would just shut up and stop wrecking the gains and goodwill they've already achieved.

Really interesting thread.

Is it fair to say there are also parties interested in keeping chilling a pre pubescent state?

Children*

I often see wee ninnies having ago at transsexuals on social media - people who have been going about their business since before these kids were alive. It’s quite an insight into the mentality.

Attacking someone who has gone the full nine yards re: surgery, legally changing documents etc as if they (as a teenager who has merely declared their pronouns recently and is toying with changing their name) have a greater insight into, well anything really. And I don’t mean disagreeing or asking questions - full on attacking them.

You have to love Dr Sian though. Their takedowns are just too delicious!

There's some interesting background to trans activism, at least in the UK.

womenspeakscotland.com/2021/06/23/the-trans-umbrella-is-older-than-you-think/

I agree, I have two trans people in my life and neither relate to the militant trans activists.

[quote NonnyMouse1337]There's some interesting background to trans activism, at least in the UK.

womenspeakscotland.com/2021/06/23/the-trans-umbrella-is-older-than-you-think/[/quote]
From that link:

Throughout the history of trans rights campaigning there has never been a time when transsexuals and transvestites were not working together, involved in the same groups, pursuing the same aims, or at least intertwining their aims in mutually beneficial ways. All that happened in the mid 2010’s is that they started being open about this and stopped pretending it was all about rights for a tiny number of transsexuals.

Perhaps they decided that policy makers and judges were now ‘sophisticated enough’ and it would no longer ‘frighten the horses’ to campaign openly for transvestites’ and cross-dressers’ rights. Or perhaps they decided they had now pushed through enough legislation, that completely coincidentally gave unintended rights to cross-dressing men, that it didn’t matter if they now showed their hand.

The Beaumont Society (for transvestites) and Press for Change (campaigning for transsexuals) are very closely linked. Christine Burns and Stephen Whittle have been involved with both groups.