Who do the transgender activists actually represent?

[FrustratinglyIrrational]

From my interactions with transgender women in normal life, I get the impression that many are just trying to get on with their lives quietly, and have no desire to make women uncomfortable. They feel unrepresented and embarrassed by the activist movement, and are nothing like the entitled bullies screaming all over social media. So who are all these people pushing the "trans agenda"? I don't believe they have the best interests of gender dysphoric people at heart, because their actions are doing a huge amount of damage to the public perception of that group, and they must be aware of that. They are giving very tolerant people good reasons to become less tolerant. And then claiming that tolerance for transgender people is at an all-time low, and that we should therefore acquiesce to their every demand. Are these activists not ultimately the biggest oppressors of the people they claim to represent?

The Employment Equality (Sexual Orientation) Regulations 2003 were secondary legislation in the United Kingdom, which prohibited employers unreasonably discriminating against employees on grounds of sexual orientation, perceived sexual orientation, religion or belief and age.
These Regulations have now been superseded by the Equality Act 2010.

This was a year before the legalisation of same sex civil partnerships in 2004. So any same sex partnership or marriage has always had legal protection from employment discrimination.

Thanks Mn for removing my name change fail! (Used a different name to ask a sensitive question about my DD and school, and my app keeps defaulting to it annnoyingly)

My post was just to say that yes, CatherinaJTV could well be in the US - but my example of my colleague was specifically from the U.K.. (Also, in the U.K. trans people have been protected from employment discrimination longer than gay people, under the Sex Discrimination (Gender Reassignment) Regulations 1999.)

When I worked for the church - of the 3 of us in the Office, 3 of us had gay siblings (1 married and two with a long term partner). When one of the 2 announced their impending marriage, the vicar offered to come along and do a blessing (this was before you could get ‘properly’ married in the church).

The most homophobic nonsense my sister has had recently (pre lockdown obv) was from a bunch of cackling idiot straight women in a flipping lesbian bar... yeah, hissing ‘lezza’ at a passing lesbian (she hadn’t event clocked them as she was going to the loo) in a lesbian bar is so ‘be kiiiiiind’...

@irresistibleoverwhelm

That reminds me of the "don't ask, don't tell" policies in many institutions. If my lesbian sister in law had married her partner, she would have lost her job. So she could be lesbian, just not be "showy" or "official" about it.

When and where was this? I’ve been a lesbian woman in the workplace in the 90s and 2000s, and never been openly discriminated against - in fact my partner, and the female and male partners of other gay colleagues, were regularly invited to work events. I’m pretty sure I could have brought a discrimination case for being fired for being lesbian even well before the EQA2010, so are you talking about a time well before this? Except civil partnerships only came in in 2004, and same sex marriage in 2014 (after the EQA2010), so I strongly suspect you are talking a bit of creative nonsense here.

in Germany - until about 5 years ago - Catholic employer - they are specifically exempt from certain equality laws, sadly.

But nice to see that you are so readily pulling the "did not happen" card here on something that has been lived reality of lesbian/gay/divorced etc employees at her work.

But that was specifically in a country and situation where the law didn’t apply.

Are we asking that from trans people now? Be trans quietly? Not so "in your face"?

No. I want Fallon Fox to be very, very clear that Fallon was born male, before signing up to fight a woman and breaking her skull.

I want Mridhul Wadhwa to be very clear that the rape crisis service in Edinburgh not only is run by a male without a GRC, but also seeks to exclude anyone Mridhul considers 'bigoted' for not agreeing that Mridhul is now a woman.

I want Eddie Izzard to do whatever Eddie pleases, be in 'boy mode' or 'girl mode' as Eddie sees fit, but not to do any of it in women's single sex spaces.

Is the distinction between 'transwomen just trying to get on with their lives' and 'transactivists' as clear cut as we sometimes believe?

To the extent that AGP is driving either of those groups, which may not be a large extent of course, I don't think the distinction exists. My guess would be that older AGP TW were always pushing it as far as they could get away with, they just didn't have the social leeway to make that kind of unreasonable demands that modern TRAs do. A very strong "need" to trespass on women's boundaries, whatever those boundaries happen to be, seems to intrinsic to the fetish.

And of course older TW didn't have the internet echo chamber telling them that every escalation and imposition onto women is completely reasonable and justified. So they would have had some connection to social feedback that stopped them going too far. But ultimately all the insanity that's happening now has been driven by the political machinations and funding from the older generation.

The thread is about whether all trans people agree with gender ideology and TRA beliefs, Catherina; but congrats on the thread derail…

I think one reason people support trans activism is that they read articles like this one by Owen Jones

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/03/anti-lgbtq-hate-crime-bigotry-britain

and they are misled into believing that the arguments people make against the radical trans agenda (ie the agenda that "a trans woman is a woman period") are the same outdated ones people used to make about gay activism, hence they are bigoted and unjust.

IMO, the activism and arguments are not equivalent. Saying "a trans woman is a woman period" and dropping the concept of biological sex in society (eg in the Census or in stats tracked by the Dept of Health) has a big impact on CIS-gendered women whereas saying something along the lines of "gay people should be able to live and love and marry without discrimination" does not redefine or affect straight people or straight lives or heterosexual marriage in the same way, IMO.

Yes, adding 'transgender' to the LGB cause was a clever, if not really very logical move.

Why would 'identity' be added onto a movement that was all about acceptance of LGB sexualities? Is 'T' a sexuality? To do with sexuality? Nobody has ever answered this, as far as I'm aware.

Why would 'identity' be added onto a movement that was all about acceptance of LGB sexualities? Is 'T' a sexuality? To do with sexuality? Nobody has ever answered this, as far as I'm aware
I think it's because lgbt are all treated the same by society. 40 years ago this exact same thing was going on, except it was gay people in the firing line. GC movement has succeeded where homophobes (whatever they called themselves at the time) failed. In 30 years time we will look back as we look back on the 80s now. While it felt right at the time, history won't see it from the same perspective.

Many of us here are LGB. Please don't appropriate and use our experiences to score your political points, unless you've got a reason to call homosexual people homophobes. Those of us who fought section 28 have no problem in sorting out that this is not the same at all and this political movement is in many ways highly questionably homophobic. If you're genuinely interested in gay rights, you might have more concern about what you are supporting and in the voices of gay people.

In 30 years time we will look back as we look back on the 80s now. While it felt right at the time, history won't see it from the same perspective.

I personally think we'll be looking back in horror, a lot sooner than 30 years too.

That children, many simply gay, lesbian or autistic, were sterilised for liking the ''wrong'' toys, clothes, hobbies, hairstyles. That women were caged in prison with rapists, that women had their skulls cracked open and were strangled by males for ''sport'', that society victim blamed 9 year old girls who were exposed to by sexual predators. There's only so much harm that can be done before people are forced to open their fucking eyes.

🤷

I want Mridhul Wadhwa to be very clear that the rape crisis service in Edinburgh not only is run by a male without a GRC, but also seeks to exclude anyone Mridhul considers 'bigoted' for not agreeing that Mridhul is now a woman.

In essence, a male person who has intentionally taken a powerful position in a women-only service and is now actively seeking to exclude and name call women from this service unless they conform to centering the needs of male people above their own. This includes women who cannot access mixed sex services due to protected characteristics.

Jean Hatchett has today been excluded from a meeting with this person for mentioning the Equality Act and the protected characteristic of sex. Current British law.

If someone can explain to me the ethics of this, I'd be grateful, because from where I'm standing, it looks very wrong to me.

I think it's because lgbt are all treated the same by society. 40 years ago this exact same thing was going on, except it was gay people in the firing line. GC movement has succeeded where homophobes (whatever they called themselves at the time) failed. In 30 years time we will look back as we look back on the 80s now. While it felt right at the time, history won't see it from the same perspective.

Or alternatively, history will see the trend for handing out puberty blockers to children as a treatment for gender uncertainty the way today it sees the trend in the 1940s for using frontal lobotomies as a treatment for mental health problems.

Time will tell I suppose.

How is it not the same? In the 80s they didn't want kids learning about gay people, in 2020 they don't want kids learning about trans people. It's the same censorship and suppression.

I think it's because lgbt are all treated the same by society. 40 years ago this exact same thing was going on, except it was gay people in the firing line. GC movement has succeeded where homophobes (whatever they called themselves at the time) failed. In 30 years time we will look back as we look back on the 80s now. While it felt right at the time, history won't see it from the same perspective.

People in the L, the G, and the B have never all been treated the same way! Look up the word "intersection" and consider how lesbians encounter homophobia and misogyny at the same time! So why you would claim the T is treated the same way, I don't know.

Did you know that transwomen in the UK got the legal right to marry a male partner before the LGB got the right to marry a same-sex partner?

The majority of people who think this is just like the 80s think that either because they were too young to be there, or because they did the grand sum of sweet Fanny Adams for gay rights.

Siri, show me the world's best example of an echo chamber.

TRAs now seem to be all people who include themselves within LGBTQ. On social media today I saw Gencder Conservatives claiming that trans people were just pretending, sorry, trans women. Trans men don;t pretend evidently, they are just confused lesbians despite only 23% of them idenntifying as straight trans men.

Trans activism is a direct response to the first the christian right, and then their proxies attacking trans existing rights. First it was men will pretend to be trans then that veil fell away and all trans women were potential if not actual predators. And in the back ground the christian right opened their cheque books and sat back. Not once, not once, has a trans person asked to take a right of a cis woman in the UK ( anonymous twitter accounts with 20 followers ( why always 20) don;t count, lets be sensible at least). So show me a trans person that wants to give up their rights. Even Debbie H uses ladies loos

@anaily

How is it not the same? In the 80s they didn't want kids learning about gay people, in 2020 they don't want kids learning about trans people. It's the same censorship and suppression.

Bollocks is it. It's incredibly offensive to the reality of what LGB people faced in the 80s to appropriate this for your own political point scoring.

No one was allowed to mention gay relationships to kids in school. No one is stopping ANYONE talking about trans people to kids, there are packs and books galore; the hesitation is about the political trans lobbies trying to push that anyone suggesting watchful waiting or hesitating about rushing a kid towards life changing, untested medications and surgeries without questioning first things like this kid may be gay and struggling with it, this kid may have autism and be struggling with their identity, this kid may have emotional struggles that are contributing to their identity crisis is conversion therapy (another useful phrase borrowed from LGB people.)

No one is at risk of being sacked from their job if it's discovered that they are trans; there's legislation to protect as there is now for LGB people. But in the 80s that was a part of it: any teacher found to be gay could lose their job. No one trans is having to live a double secret life to keep their job; there's whole charities and well funded government groups ready to turn up and support them and employers earning badges and rainbows for learning how.

This is not in any way like section 28. It is crass in the extreme to appropriate and cartoonise the realities of what LGB people experienced at that time.

@anaily

How is it not the same? In the 80s they didn't want kids learning about gay people, in 2020 they don't want kids learning about trans people. It's the same censorship and suppression.

It's 2021, actually. You don't even know what year it is?

Let's think about what it was really like in the 80s and 90s. From someone who was there. Children were told to try not to be gay or lesbian. And now, they are being told that again. Otherwise, they're told they're being "transphobic"! Men told lesbians that they were lesbians trapped in men's bodies...

extract

When I came out at 14 in 1992, my father went to the doctor. Clearly, he didn’t want a gay son and the doctor thought that he could help. I received a book which suggested my sexual orientation was just a minor setback that could be rectified. It suggested that I simply had a neutral sexuality and that with effort, I could “redirect” this sexual energy to the “proper” sex — starting by fantasising about the more “masculine” women.

I genuinely tried this, for a week. Even at 14 I had a vivid imagination. I tried to imagine “masculine” women — short haired butch bikers, soldiers, anything that could still interest my sexuality, but as soon as the clothes came off and I was presented with a female form, my sexuality simply said no.

I realised then, even at 14, what “gender” was, even without consciously knowing it. I knownowthough, and I can explain it. “Gender” roles and stereotypes are imprinted on my sexuality as aproxyfor sex. I’m attracted to masculine things becausesocietyhas associated these as markers for male sex. This is how uniform, bear and leather kinks develop. All these “gender” things are signals to my sexuality that “this is a male”, simply because we no longer walk around naked.

Gender ideology is homophobic, and backwards

As Stonewall has now declared that gay men are attracted to malegender, they now have this backwards, and this is wholly homophobic. I am homosexual, exclusively attracted to the samesex. The gender roles and presentation are simply markers my sexuality uses. No wonder people are “disgusted” by gender non conformists, as their sexuality gets mixed signals and that cognitive dissonance can be felt. That is where bigotry and prejudice lie, failing to recognise it’s your sexuality having a meltdown because it’s not actually that clever, instead of recognising it and giving it a wry smile and a pat on the head.

Sexuality however is rooted in sex, specificallyphenotype. When all the gender presentation is stripped back and I see the naked form, my sexuality is interested in the sex characteristics of males, and this innate homosexuality is now under attack from trans rights activists.

Again and again I see sexuality reduced to a “genital preference”, with people saying that my insistence for male genitals is “exclusionary” to trans men, transphobic, and thus bigoted. Because they insist trans menaremen, if I don’t accept them as such and overcome my “genital preference”, I am bigoted and need to consider accepting men regardless of their appearance.

This is awfully and horrifically familiar. It is a new form of conversion therapy and while I have personally felt it (and then gone into full attack mode on twitter, which isn’t healthy), I can now see that lesbians are ground zero for this. Below are examples of the homophobic comments now made acceptable by this new ideology:

The Boxer Ceiling(warning, upsetting comments)
photos.google.com/share/AF1QipN6bUPUugEzmNmC-nZTunsVPUtgAuMANMmoVSD1j5gmROqY5E53VSCukHKc8zSRHA?key=bTMzMDNKeC1vbkFkRjlqTHJKM284RU1IQ3JkSlF3
Get The L out(UK)
www.gettheloutuk.com/

Continues:
uncommongroundmedia.com/how-i-became-a-trans-rights-activist-then-turned-gender-critical/

First it was men will pretend to be trans then that veil fell away and all trans women were potential if not actual predators

Hey Disgusted, what do you think of the Wi Spa development? I noticed on the thread at the time you said the women were making this up because there were no actual issues, yes? I also noticed your absence on the thread proving that it wasn't a hoax and the women and children had been smeared and victim blamed by ''progressives''.

What do you make of the sex offender (that is known to police for pretending to be a woman to gain access to women's spaces) with a semi erect penis getting into a hot tub next to a little 9 year old girl and other naked women?

First it was men will pretend to be trans then that veil fell away and all trans women were potential if not actual predators

All male people are potential predators, which is why we have had single-sex prisons since the 1800s, after realising what happened when female people were locked in with male people. You and others are demanding that we treat male people with gender dysphoria as a special exception. Why? What evidence do you have that male people with gender dysphoria can't ever stick their penis into an unwilling woman? What evidence do you have that male people with dysphoria can't sexually intimidate female cellmates ?

Disgusted, I'd like your input on what is going on here.

extract
The concern among staff and inmates is a risk of sexual assault. The employee cites a recent incident in which an inmate from a male facility raped a female in the women’s prison upon arrival. The transferred inmate, according to the employee, is incarcerated for a sex offense and has “fully functional male genitalia, a history of violence and sexual depravity in the community, and has been found guilty of sexual assault against other inmates while housed in the men’s facilities.”

“He is a proven sexual predator, having committed multiple crimes against women, yet the State of Washington had no problem moving him into a women’s facility and housing him with the most vulnerable in our population (our mental health unit),” the employee wrote.

“Word of the incident has inevitably traveled throughout the facility, causing much concern amongst both inmates and staff,” the employee said. “It demonstrated the state’s willingness to put the most vulnerable of our population in harm’s way, by locking them in a cell with a proven predator, with zero accountability or repercussions for the perpetrator.”

Among the inmates transferred to the women’s facility is Donna Perry, formerly known as Douglas Perry, who was convicted for killing three sex workers. Before being charged, Perryreportedly went to Thailandfor gender reassignment surgery. Prosecutors during the trial claimed that Perry had undergone the surgery to avoid suspicion for the killings.

Also recently transferred in was Hobby Bingham, now known as Princess Zoee Marie Andromeda Love, whowas convictedfor having sex with a 12-year-old girl. Bingham is alleged by the anonymous employee to have had sex with a female inmate at the women’s facility.

Comtinues: mynorthwest.com/2666243/doc-washington-correctional-center-women-men-transfer

How is it not the same? In the 80s they didn't want kids learning about gay people, in 2020 they don't want kids learning about trans people. It's the same censorship and suppression.

It's exactly the opposite. It could not be more different from state efforts (through the notorious Section 28 of the Local Government Act) to stop schools "promoting homosexuality" in the 1980s and 90s.

Read many threads on here by concerned parents or teachers. In 2021 gender identity a strongly disputed belief system is being taught as if it was a fact. Teachers are ordered to agree with a child who says s/he is trans, and to keep this secret from the parents. Coming out as trans is celebrated.

The one thing Section 28 had in common with the current widespread official support for the trans movement is that both discourage young gay people from recognising their natural sexuality. In the 1980s they were encouraged to be straight. Today they are encouraged to be trans.

@DisgustedofManchester

Siri, show me the world's best example of an echo chamber.

TRAs now seem to be all people who include themselves within LGBTQ. On social media today I saw Gencder Conservatives claiming that trans people were just pretending, sorry, trans women. Trans men don;t pretend evidently, they are just confused lesbians despite only 23% of them idenntifying as straight trans men.

Trans activism is a direct response to the first the christian right, and then their proxies attacking trans existing rights. First it was men will pretend to be trans then that veil fell away and all trans women were potential if not actual predators. And in the back ground the christian right opened their cheque books and sat back. Not once, not once, has a trans person asked to take a right of a cis woman in the UK ( anonymous twitter accounts with 20 followers ( why always 20) don;t count, lets be sensible at least). So show me a trans person that wants to give up their rights. Even Debbie H uses ladies loos

What a lot of silly buzzword salad.

If you've got an actual interest in reading here, for goodness sake read and then try making some coherent points worth debating. There is not one coherent point anywhere in this, and all of the buzzwords have been debunked many, many times.