James/Lisa Shupe on autogynephilia.

[Signalbox]

Interesting Benjamin Boyce interview with James/Lisa Shupe discussing the difficulties of accessing medical care for autogynephilia.

Shupe talks about their (quite significant) struggle with autogynephilia and coming to terms with the idea that they are not and would never be female, and the difficulties of getting the treatment that they needed once they told doctors that they didn't "identify" as a woman. Shupe says that they have been forced to lie and say that they identify as female to get appropriate medical care.

His wife must be somewhere on the "angel" to "complete fool" spectrum.

I think his wife would more likely be completely coercively controlled and emotionally broken.

Karen has had a trans widow on her channel numerous times, her name is Oota (sorry not sure if the spelling). I imagine Karen's stance in this would be quite rightly heavily influenced by their honest conversations about Oota/Uta (?) 's shocking experience of being married to an AGP. Here she explains how the husband, referred to as Nettie, claimed she was the nanny rather than the mother, in direct breach of their divorce contract. She was quite literally erased as the mother of their two sons.

To focus on the trans widow in Shupe's case seem entirely reasonable to me, even without Shupe's confessions.

@happydappy2

Fascinating interview, which raises many questions. Has a female ever been diagnosed with AGP?

Who was it who first told men who wish to present in a feminine way that they should take cross sex hormones & BE women? (Why not just present in a feminine way & be effeminate men?

By definition, a woman couldn't be diagnosed with AGP.

Shupe has been heavily criticised by Karen (You Kiddin' Right) Davis for talking about the coercion of his wife, stuff that he brought up in interview. Her zero tolerance attitude to him and his affliction vis a vis how he treated his wife (a stance I agree with) has led her to criticise commentators like BB and Arty Morty for giving Shupe any sympathy. AM and BB have joined forces to attack Karen, accusing her of "breaking alliances" or some such and threatening to sue her; and now Shupe has threatened to sue her for mentioning his wife, when she has basically done nothing more than repeat and comment on Shupe's own words.

FFS, this is just more men trying to silence women. He has spoken about his wife himself, but Karen is not allowed to mention her?

The thing with BB is his style is very softly softly, which usually works because it gets the person on side, and then they talk more without being defensive. But I never thought he or Arty Morty would come out like that, I thought they got it. It's just more men attacking women when we speak out in a way they don't like.

It was brought to my attention recently, as pointed out by Posie Parker, that most of these podcasts are hosted by men. They dominate the space, and we are supposed to be so grateful that they even have a GC perspective. So frustrating.

This WHOLE THING is really about the impact on women. And we're not even supposed to talk about it, or bring it up, or notice, definitely not supposed to be annoyed about it!

Now Glinner has suspended Karen from commenting in the live chat on the Mess We're In. He's labelled it a "personal spat" and "trolling". How very patronising. I would have labelled it as a "political difference" and that Karen is allowed to have a different view of AGPs than Arty. But hey, it's just another woman having an opinion. I'm pretty sure Karen has not engaged in anything that Glinner didn't before his twitter ban.

Funnily enough, Wednesday's Mess without Helen S was utterly flat and Glinner and Arty didn't have much to say. Makes me realise how much of Glinner's contribution is about picking up on Helen's talking points and interrupting her.

This is all so weird, so they are basically trying to censor Karen from having her opinion about AGP? Is Glinner just sticking up for Arty? What does Arty think AGP is? Unless he is mixing it up with homosexual AGP which is different to what James Shupe has...

It's disappointing because that is what they are trying to fight against, women being able to speak or have opinions. And they know what it is like to be cancelled and blocked, and now they are doing it to someone else? Why??

Has Karen spoken out about this? Do you have a link?

I tried reading Glinner's substack but it's increasingly about arguments with other people I have zero interest in reading about. This isn't a dig at anyone, I've just noticed and despaired about more and more people getting tied up in spats publicly. I just go off and do something else.

Glinner was vocal on Twitter years ago about "gamergate" and a similar thing seemed to happen then.

I'm not really interested in clicking on Podcasts of men talking about their female subordination fetishes. And yes, I'd be delighted if they've got help to overcome them.

But I'm beginning to notice that other men appear to have a certain amount of sympathy for men whose lives are dominated by paraphilias like AGP. I wonder if they would have the same reaction if it was a fetish that was about subordinating men.

And it's very interesting to note how often men who say they are allies will centre the men with the fetish, and the woman who are affected by it are completely invisible.

Has Karen spoken out about this? Do you have a link?

Karen talks about this in this video (she starts talking about it around 31 mins in).

FREE SPEECH FOR THEE NOT FOR ME!!

These are Karen’s videos about the Shupe interview with Boyce:

JAMIE SHUPE ON BOYCE: WHAT THE HELL?

SHUPE: GIMME DRUGS! DOC: NO! The Injustice!!!

SHUPE ADMITS SEXUAL COERCION!

SHUPE: FEMINISTS ARE WRONG!

NUCLEAR CATNIP!!! SHUPE IN THE COMMENTS! (Part 1)

NUCLEAR CAPTNIP!!! SHUPE PART 2

SHUPE: SLANDER! KAREN: I'M QUOTING YOU

SHUPE: SLANDER! KAREN: LET'S TALK ABOUT CONSENT LAWS!

SHUPE: I NEVER LOST MY MALE PATTERN OF CRIMINALITY! ALSO SHUPE: SLANDER!

NOW THE WIFE IS INVOLVED!

These are Karen’s videos on Arty Morty’s interview with Boyce and what followed:

ARTY MORTY: AGPs ARE MISUNDERSTOOD!

CATNIP!!!! ARTY INSULTS WOMEN THEN EQUATES AGP AND GAY. It's A Cray Fest, Y'all!

ARTY: DELETE THIS B*S*T VIDEO! More Testerical Mantruming From An 'Ally'.

CATNIP!!!!! ARTY MORTY CALLS MARY A HOMOPHOBE!

BOYCE ON TWITTER: IGNORE KAREN OR THREATEN HER LEGALLY! Can You Believe These People?

ARTY: KAREN HAS OBLITERATED THE ALLIANCES!

Karen started a youtube channel so she could share her views on how women are being harmed by gender ideology what she calls ‘the gender fracas’. Karen often shares her views about what other people have said about this issue in her youtube videos. If someone comments under one of her videos and she wants to address their arguments she sometimes makes a video she calls ‘catnip’ and addresses their arguments in a video. She is just using her youtube channel to voice her views, she should be entitled to discuss other youtube videos, what people say in the comments under her videos, what people say on twitter or anywhere else, without being subjected to a silencing campaign by people who cannot refute her arguements.

Some people men have said that these males are brave going on the airwaves with their issues. However, I suspect that these males with the Auto thingie are pleasuring themselves even further by talking about it to a public audience. I highly doubt that they're doing it for the benefit of anyone else, or for selfless reasons. It is useful to the rest of society, especially women, to have it exposed what is behind a lot of that behaviour, but I don't think that is behind them exposing their activities in the way they are indulging in. When Karen examines what these Auto males are saying (and not saying how brave they are for speaking about it to an audience), she upsets how the act was designed to play out.

I sincerely wonder if there is any woman who honestly thinks a male human can change into a female human; even those proclaiming public belief in the face of coercion or intimidation. Even on this forum, I only stop stating my truthful and honest opinion of a male human who states they have become a female human, because of a fear of censure. Many people on earth have desperate trials and tribulations, so I am not interested in those of these males, especially when they don't care how their wishes have aggressively impacted women. At best, and if I am being generous, some don't care. At worst, and if I am being honest, I think it may be part of the whole thing.

@Stopthisnow @Cailleach1

First, thank you Stopthisnow for posting all those links.

Second, did you see this week's The Mess We're In with Ray Blanchard? A complete take over by the Arty " I feel sorry for the AGP" one man band, plus some lovely women blaming at the end, which is pretty much the only time Helen speaks though the entire thing. Her face speaks volumes though.

Karen goes through the whole thing with a fine tooth comb in 4 parts, and I learned so much more from her about the condition than I did from the Mess interview. Ultimately she comes to the conclusion I agree with, namely, what has the clinical psychological assessment of these men have to do with them having the right to be in women's spaces. Answer: nothing.

I admire Helen Staniland so much for being able to sit through that TMWI, presumably in the service of hearing out dissenting perspectives and demonstrating that it's possible to disagree profoundly with someone and there to be no schism.

@Datun

I'm not really interested in clicking on Podcasts of men talking about their female subordination fetishes. And yes, I'd be delighted if they've got help to overcome them.

But I'm beginning to notice that other men appear to have a certain amount of sympathy for men whose lives are dominated by paraphilias like AGP. I wonder if they would have the same reaction if it was a fetish that was about subordinating men.

And it's very interesting to note how often men who say they are allies will centre the men with the fetish, and the woman who are affected by it are completely invisible.

Where? I'm not sure that I can ever recall anyone expressing sympathy for AGP men... and I'm not sure why anyone would offer sympathy to someone for their personality. I say personality because if they thought of their issues as illnesses then maybe they would try to have the illness treated, but they don't, they try to make themselves as happy as possible with the "personality trait" humoured.

Shupe's wife has debunked any and all false claims of emotional, physical or sexual abuse within their marriage in this YouTube statement.

Has anyone heard of Apophenia?

Thought not.

Thank you for all the links to the Karen videos! I so wish that Karen and Posie were available on Apple podcasts!