Judith Butler interview

[MotherofPearl]

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/sep/07/judith-butler-interview-gender?CMP=ShareiOSAppOther

Apologies if this has already been posted. I found this troubling to read. Am I misreading this or is Butler saying that GC feminism is fascist?

TWEET

Sonia Sodha
@soniasodha
It will never not be true that hyperbolically peppering a piece with references to fascists and fascism to try and discredit reasonable people who disagree with you is convincing to precisely nobody who doesn’t already think exactly as you do.

I notice a reply to Sonia Sodha:

"perhaps more the case that it’s very normal, on finding yourself aligned with the far right - for reasons of antagonism towards a particular minority, or because your friends are, or because you’ve been misled - to find yourself becoming very defensive about words like “fascist”"

Translation: denying you're a fascist is proof that you are one.

Okay so in the name of balance I really tried to read Judith's new article (linked on page 16 of this thread). I just couldn't get to the end. But from the first half I think she is saying that:

1. gender identity theory is great but it is far too diverse and complex to explain

2. people who don't like gender identity theory are all nationalist, transphobic, misogynist, homophobic, conservative, religious, fascist bigots. They also oppose reproductive freedom for women, rights of single parents, rights of trans people, and protections for women against rape and domestic violence.

Okay Judith that does sound pretty bad. Is it true though? No, no I don't think it is

I did start reading it, but skimmed to the end. Fuck me, that is a lot of words to say gender critical feminists are (or are aligning with) a bunch of right wing bible bashing, censoring, violence threatening, hyperbolic fascists.

Sorry but what a load of drivelling bollocks. Actually, no, not sorry. Dr Jane Clare Jones sums it up brilliantly.

Okay Judith that does sound pretty bad. Is it true though? No, no I don't think it is

Of course it's not. And she must know it's not. If she pays any attention at all, she'll know that most gender-critical feminists have a long history of working in the violence against women sector, of fighting for abortion rights, of campaigning for contraception, the right to control one's fertility and so on. Julie Bindel is a prominent article but god knows there are very many others. She must know that. So she's deliberately lying.

example not article!

I couldn't read the whole thing either, but I read the last paragraph:

That is why it makes no sense for “gender critical” feminists to ally with reactionary powers in targeting trans, non-binary, and genderqueer people.

So the rest of the article is not attempting to explain what is wrong about feminist opposition to genderism, but only about why religious conservative people object to 'gender ideology'. But then she makes the enormous leap that feminists who oppose this ideology must be 'targeting' trans people, and that we also must be 'allies' of the religious right-wingers.

She appears not to understand that we might have completely different reasons for our opposition to genderism which is as far removed from the religious right as her position is.

She says: Given that most of these opponents refuse to read any material that might contradict their beliefs or cherrypick from complex texts to support a caricature, how is one to proceed?

And yet this article shows very clearly that she hasn't read anything that might contradict her beliefs. If she had she wouldn't come across as so completely ignorant of what gender critical feminists are actually saying.

Has she completely misunderstood the gender-critical argument, or is she deliberately misrepresenting it?

There's another possibility. She believes all the gender identity stuff and, because it's incoherent, inconsistent, and self-contradictory, she is incapable of thinking in a rational way. So she thinks very cleverly but it's just garbage. She's a human GIGO machine.

God, I just tried to read this, I'm exhausted. What utter fucking gibberish. I have nothing else to say.

God, what a load of old shit. I barely skimmed it but a couple of gems leaped out.

"They [the GC "movement] do not hold themselves to standards of of consistency or coherence" Oh, the irony!

"They oppose protections for women against rape and domestic violence". HOW FUCKING DARE SHE!

She's a human GIGO machine.

YES! I'm going to use this in future every time JB comes up.

TWEETS

@HadleyFreeman
“Everyone who disagrees with me is a fascist” is a really reasonable, persuasive and intelligent argument and it’s one I wish I’d thought of years ago. Could have saved me so much bother

@soniasodha
In case anyone missed the signs outside said conference, at which women who’ve suffered rape & sexual trauma were in attendance. I would never call the people who wrote them fascists though, because to do so is to demean those who’ve lost their lives to fascism.

@bindelj
Whilst one so-called feminist organisation purporting to campaign to end drug rape have dropped to their knees on behalf of the patriarchy, a so-called 'feminist icon' who is nothing of the sort is calling actual feminists fascists. I think I go to bed and get up tomorrow.

We get it! You’re a cool girl.

Jane Clare Jones:
"So, in honour of the High Priestess of Genderology being dispatched to remind the great and the good that those uppity witches are all fascists and most definitely should not be listened to (nothing remotely normative or disciplinary going on here honest innit), here is the first draft of the piece I finished last week on why sex denial is a pile of conceptual bullshit. The argument works, in fact, by playing Butler at her own game, and demonstrating that actually, it is her who is committed to absolutist and determinist ideas about sex, which is what leads her to the catastrophic and idiotic conclusion we need to all play a massive international round of ‘let’s pretend’ enforced by women losing their jobs, being threatened and punched, and occasionally patronised by a famed ‘feminist’ academic who transparently hasn’t got a damn clue what is actually happening."
janeclarejones.com/2021/09/07/smashing-the-binary-a-dissection-of-sex-denial/