Judith Butler interview

[MotherofPearl]

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/sep/07/judith-butler-interview-gender?CMP=ShareiOSAppOther

Apologies if this has already been posted. I found this troubling to read. Am I misreading this or is Butler saying that GC feminism is fascist?

"Counter-productive" is a euphemism for "false" or "incorrect", I guess?

I think it’s a euphemism for “makes my team look bad.” This person didn’t want to correct the question in the first place because the correction would have to acknowledge that sex offenders who use self-ID to prey on women and children exist.

@merrymouse

And I just find it funny that we are supposedly gnashing our teeth in rage that Judy has bested us.

She’d be hopeless on a parking thread. Would probably refuse to provide a diagram.

@merrymouse

And I just find it funny that we are supposedly gnashing our teeth in rage that Judy has bested us.

She’d be hopeless on a parking thread. Would probably refuse to provide a diagram.

The TRA belief that the Butler interview is some kind of a blow to GC feminists reveals that they don't see discussion as discussion, but as a dominance struggle.

Physically intimidating and threatening us into silence isn't working as well as it used to. So now a Big Name Academic with a reputation as "feminist" (lol) has come out to do it virtually. She's displayed her her very big antlers vocabulary and long tusks sentences at us and we're all supposed to think, damn, she's reached the top of the academic dominance hierarchy for a reason, I could never have antlers that big, and back down.

But I think what they aren't getting, possibly because many of them are men, is that not everyone is playing their game by their rules, and that to people outside their silly game being vocabularied at by Judith Butler is approximately as impressive and intimidating as being lightsabered at by a Star Wars LARPer.

These halfwits call us Nazis all the time, it's not a better argument when it's covered in syllable sauce and served up by the patriarchy's favourite Butler. But it seems like some participants in this conversation aren't capable of understanding that, because they're so shallow, status-obsessed and trifling that they don't even register that there are other ways to think.

Oh, strikethrough didn't work! I meant of course:

She's displayed her her very big antlers vocabulary and long tusks sentences at us and we're all supposed to think, damn, she's reached the top of the academic dominance hierarchy for a reason, I could never have antlers that big, and back down.

Trying to imagine Butler describing a parking situation without a diagram really IS blowing my mind.

"CF neighbour parked performatively creating a new reality, invoking a power that did not belong to them as a person. I have been 'blocked' - entered into a realm of blockdom, although I did not just choose it - it was not just imposed on me - this has become a socially constructed struggle of negotiation. Make, model and position of parking space are rendered distinct analytically only to produce the realisation that I cannot proceed without CF getting out of my way.

I cannot operate within the matrix of power - would penguin bollards help?"

I cannot operate within the matrix of power - would penguin bollards help?"

But I think what they aren't getting, possibly because many of them are men, is that not everyone is playing their game by their rules, and that to people outside their silly game being vocabularied at by Judith Butler is approximately as impressive and intimidating as being lightsabered at by a Star Wars LARPer.

These halfwits call us Nazis all the time, it's not a better argument when it's covered in syllable sauce and served up by the patriarchy's favourite Butler. But it seems like some participants in this conversation aren't capable of understanding that, because they're so shallow, status-obsessed and trifling that they don't even register that there are other ways to think.

All this. Perfectly put.

I keep wanting to say something hilarious about the penguin bollards performing as waiters but I can't think of anything

"Each year Philosophy and Literature, an academic journal, runs a bad-writing contest to celebrate "the most stylistically lamentable passages found in scholarly books and articles". The only condition is that entries be non-ironic. "Deliberate parody cannot be allowed in a field where unintended self-parody is so widespread," it explains. Here are the 1998 results. The journal found it hard to suppress its delight that "two of the most popular and influential literary scholars in the US are among those who wrote winning entries"

Judith Butler won first prize in 1998.

amp.theguardian.com/books/1999/dec/24/news?__twitter_impression=true

Gleeson is just another TW with a huge vested interest. An active propagandist.

Sorry if this has been shared already:

www.spectator.co.uk/article/terf-war-reignites-at-guardian-hq

The TRA belief that the Butler interview is some kind of a blow to GC feminists reveals that they don't see discussion as discussion, but as a dominance struggle.

Yes. And yet calling people names isn't really a particularly effective way of gaining dominance. Didn't there use to be an internet law that said "First person to call the other person a fascist loses"?

As soon as you call someone a fascist, you've shown that you don't have any arguments. It's an almost infallible sign of weakness.

And yet calling people names isn't really a particularly effective way of gaining dominance.

It can be effective way to achieve social dominance in some circumstances. Most people don't want to be callled 'facist' so if you create an association that people hold who view X will be denoucned as facist that will likely influence some people away from publically holding view X (expecially people who are not that invested in X in the first place).

Name calling is a sign of weakness if you're trying to argue your case, but many TRAs have no interest in arguing a case, only in silencing their opponents.

And yet calling people names isn't really a particularly effective way of gaining dominance.

It's a clear signal as to the consequences of differing from a dominant ideology that has support from key institutions and mainstream media.

It also aggravates preference falsification.

Name calling is a sign of weakness if you're trying to argue your case, but many TRAs have no interest in arguing a case, only in silencing their opponents.

You're right, and of course there are a lot of feeble-minded people who will decide, "Person X says this group of people are fascists, therefore they must be fascists" and then they don't apply any more thought to the matter because thinking hurts.

Still, I'd like to believe that people who have more than an ounce of sense - and surely there are some out there - will see the word "fascist" being bandied around and see it as a sign of desperation from a group of people who have nothing but insults.

[quote Franca123]Sorry if this has been shared already:

www.spectator.co.uk/article/terf-war-reignites-at-guardian-hq[/quote]
"Butler said the fact that 'trans-exclusionary feminists have allied with right-wing attacks on gender' was 'appalling and sometimes quite frightening'" The 'fact', Steerpike?

Editor-in-Chief Editor Kath Vine

It looks like this column needed more work.

Has anyone posted about the Guardian editing their article?
Apparently it broke their own guidelines.
pressgazette.co.uk/guardian-pulls-judith-butler-gender-interview/

Butler is full of shit isn't she?

The notorious deleted bit was just a load of unsubstantiated assertions. Which I thought was a bit of a philosophy fail.

So the Guardian still has one or two editorial standards! Jolly good!

But ref Butler. Even my reasonably woke children, who definitely suspect me of being gender critical, know better than to call me a fascist. But somehow Judy knows me better?

Not quite the point of the thread, but I now have an unforgettable image of Judith Butler, with moose antlers, sitting in a Mini in a cul de sac and raging that someone has blocked her driveway.

The image I get is Blakey from On the Buses.

Yay @ScreamingMeMe, that prize was superbly well deserved. May the winner be awarded all the biscuits!! (And a signed EP of Parklife)