Really stupid question about the term 'cis'

[Spottybluepyjamas]

I've recently become very vocal about the sex and gender debate amongst some of my friends and family and can normally hold my own when someone is telling me that 'trans women are women' and that it doesn't hurt anyone else for someone to be able to switch sex, so why does it concern me.

However, I can't articulate why I disagree with the word 'cis'. In my mind I shouldn't have to give up the right to use the plain and simple word 'woman' without a prefix just to appease men (men shouldn't be front and centre in feminism), but I think there's more to it than that, something more insidious but I can't put it into words. Can anyone help me please?

You believe that the placing of convicted sex offenders in the female estate to be a hyperfixualisation? The prison service deny that there is a problem at all. There is no protocol because they treat these convicted sex offenders as women.

There is undoubtedly an issue with the abuse of power by prison guards. That is at least acknowledged. The MOJ have done their best, in a recent judicial review, to deny that housing transwomen in the female estate poses a problem at all. The judge in the judicial review himself noted that harm and fear will happen to women due to this policy. However, it is legal. Shamefully.

So what's the point of the GRA? Why not just scrap it?

Altering birth certificates so you don't get married and buried as a woman when you're not a woman.

So your argument is that because some male guards commit sexual offences against female prisoners, we might as well put male prisoners in with the women as well?

Do you rehearse this shite in your meetings? I've heard this exact ridiculous jump-to-shite argument targeted FIVE TIMES to me by the exact same bad-faith people in the past 2 weeks.

Come on women, any man may rape us, let's accept men in our toilets, changing facilities, prisons, sports...best just accept it and get on with accepting it with a smile. Everyone wins...well a shouty group of TW and rapists win.

@Barheim

So your argument is that because some male guards commit sexual offences against female prisoners, we might as well put male prisoners in with the women as well?

Do you rehearse this shite in your meetings? I've heard this exact ridiculous jump-to-shite argument targeted FIVE TIMES to me by the exact same bad-faith people in the past 2 weeks.

If people keep misinterpreting you in the same way, maybe you aren't being as clear as you think you are.

After all, you have literally said on this thread that you "don't care" to worry about trans women assaulting female prisoners because assaults by male guards are a bigger problem.

Which seems pretty close to what OldCrone said, no?

Perhaps you can explain what you really meant.

@Barheim

So your argument is that because some male guards commit sexual offences against female prisoners, we might as well put male prisoners in with the women as well?

Do you rehearse this shite in your meetings? I've heard this exact ridiculous jump-to-shite argument targeted FIVE TIMES to me by the exact same bad-faith people in the past 2 weeks.

I bet that if you'd asked five people whether 2 plus 2 = 5, you'd have been told it equalled 4 no less than FIVE TIMES.

But seriously and sincerely, why are you calling others "bad-faith people", when you are repeatedly making the same bad argument, in the hope that the next person won't be bright enough to articulate why it's faulty?

If someone points out a logical flaw in something I'm saying, I stop making that argument. It's intellectually dishonest to do otherwise.

And I know, because I have made very similar points before. It was pointed out to me why they were terrible so I stopped doing it. I'm not in the habit of being deceitful and I don't seek to convince people of beliefs I don't hold.

If people keep misinterpreting you in the same way, maybe you aren't being as clear as you think you are.

If you keep repeating the exact same thing word for word, it has nothing to do with what I'm saying and everything with how you're rephrasing things in ill faith and parroting each others' cult tactics.

I bet that if you'd asked five people whether 2 plus 2 = 5, you'd have been told it equalled 4 no less than FIVE TIMES.

So your argument is that because some people say 2 plus 2 = 5, we might as well kill people who told it equalled 4 as well?

So your argument is that because some people say 2 plus 2 = 5, we might as well kill people who told it equalled 4 as well?

Who is being killed?.

Women, women are killed by abusive men.

I'm telling you that you are making an illogical argument. If you keep telling people that 2+2=5, they will explain to you that it is 4.

If you keep telling people that our prison system has existing loopholes for abusers to exploit as part of an argument for why we should create additional loopholes, people will keep explaining why that's wrong too.

Remember the penis raping women in women's prisons is attached to a trans identifying man though - a TW. Therefore it's a woman's penis...oh wait, women don't have a penis

Why are you campaigning to move a subset of male prisoners into the female prison estate instead of campaigning to remove male guards from the female prison estate?

With the former, the best case scenario is that no more women inmates are raped. The worst case scenario is that additional women inmates are raped and this has already come to pass. Karen White assaulted two women. A prisoner who had been raped in the female estate by a male prisoner partnered with Keep Prisons Single Sex to ask for a judicial review.

If we kept prisoners separated by sex and campaigned to remove male guards as well, we would eliminate rape of female prisoners.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes keeping penis-havers out of women's spaces won't work as it's common sense and infringes the right of men to be in women's spaces if they feel that want to do so.

@Barheim

If people keep misinterpreting you in the same way, maybe you aren't being as clear as you think you are.

If you keep repeating the exact same thing word for word, it has nothing to do with what I'm saying and everything with how you're rephrasing things in ill faith and parroting each others' cult tactics.

I have no idea what you think I am repeating "word for word". I'm responding to what you are saying and it's a genuine response, based on my own views and my analysis of what I think you are saying. I even took the time to double check my understanding that a GRC was not required to house a male prisoner in a female prison before I posted.

It's possible I've used the same phrasing with you as I've used in other posts before -
because I'm the same person talking about the same topic and that's the way I think about it. It would be weird if I expressed the same thoughts differently every time I posted them!

But if you do think I'm making a "bad faith" argument, surely this is a great opportunity for you to clarify what you actually meant and show me up?

Next you'll say women are women and men are men, as though we can all state facts above a minorities feelings.

As Douglas Adams didn't say, "Back when you could say that menweremen, women were women and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri."

But that was then and this is now... how did the furry creatures feel and did they identify with their observed birthplace?

Perhaps, to them, 2+2= 5 if it's a Monday.

@Barheim

So what's the point of the GRA? Why not just scrap it?

Altering birth certificates so you don't get married and buried as a woman when you're not a woman.

The GRA isn't for altering birth certificates if an error was made when a child's birth was registered.

People can't change sex. If you were born female you will be female for your whole life.

The argument that women who are horrified by male sex offenders in women's prisons

Aren't actually at all. But just saying it to hate on trans people.

Really just shows that the person who thinks that really does not like women.

Loads of women and men are horrified by this.

The idea that it is what it says on the tin is apparently impossible.

Because. The idea of male sex offenders in women's prisons is. What. Unlikely to horrify anyone unless they have an ulterior motive?

I mean. Come off it.

@Anotheruser02

It's compelled speech.

This

Wow. You must really have to think that women don't matter to dismiss male sex offenders being allowed in women's prisons, and sexually assaulting those women, as simply hyperfixating on singular incidents. If any argument is in bad faith it's that one.

It is so clear cut and not a case of "oops a woman accidentally stuck her univited penis in a real woman, but don't worry love you are probably
a one-off".

We're essentially animals with sexual drivers. You wouldn't put an intact male with females in a zoo without expecting something to happen.

When an intact male requests a female prison he is seeking gratification of his sexual drivers. Pretending his penis is female and he's a lesbian is a facade.

There is another thread relating to this issue with a way to let government know that male crime should be recorded as male crime:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/petitions_noticeboard/4299869-Please-sign-this-petition-to-have-crimes-by-men-recorded-as-mens-crimes