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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'The Guardian has found itself defending a sex-offender's right to expose themselves to children'

84 replies

secular111 · 03/09/2021 19:54

This is a continuation of the thread at;

Shameful incoherent, poorly-referenced, completely biased piece of journalism from the Guardian

The quote in the title is from Dave Hewitt's essay published today;

The Guardian's Ideological dead-end

As you can likely guess, he eviscerates The Guardian, and leaves its rotting carcase out-in-the-sun for the vultures to pick over.

Quite simply, Guardian readers have once again been fed a pack of Alex Jones-style falsehoods, this time over the Wi-Spa scandal. As usual, LOJ contributed to the attempts to hoodwink the readership, and for the most part it seemed to have worked. Until Andy Ngo exposed the entire rotting falsehood in what has proven to be the journalistic scoop-of-the-year to date.

Hewitt details how The Guardian's world-view has seen it simply unable to present itself as a reliable news source, with it now peddling deliberate falsehoods and fake-news, in much the same way the right-wing press in the US is accused of. The Guardian though has gone further in its commitment to falsehood; all the complainants in the Wi-Spa scandal were Black women, so The Guardian had determined to deprive those women of their legitimate voices - a fundamentally racist act.

I'm not sure what the owners of The Guardian - The Scott Trust, have as a business model. Hoping that the readership and subscribers are easily or willingly fooled by whatever lies the hacks write doesn't seem to be a long-term strategy. That though is precisely where The Guardian is today, having abandoned facts are sacred as a creed, replaced with lies are paramount.

OP posts:
LoislovesStewie · 04/09/2021 07:50

@Aparallaxia

It would be funny if it weren't so enraging. I never, ever thought that I'd abandon the Graun. Read it for 40 years. Now I wouldn't wrap my fish and chips in it.
You and me both. I won't have it in the house any more.
nauticant · 04/09/2021 08:10

One profound irony is that 10 years ago The Guardian did one of the scoops of the decade against News International and now there's some kind of weird distorting mirror thing going on with The Guardian spreading disinformation to cover up a (arguably much bigger) scandal and The Times (in the News International successor entity) seeking to uncover it, and also to reveal that something has gone badly wrong at The Guardian.

LazyViper · 04/09/2021 08:17

Another sadly disillusioned ex-Graun fan here. I cannot believe how far it has lost its way. Everything has to be commissioned or reported from the perspective of supporting the wokebro ideology. It’s so extreme.

Also youth-obsessed and sneeringly ageist. But of course.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 04/09/2021 08:40

Can Owen Jones please explain why it is apparently oppression for women not to allow males in women's spaces? Because in his anti-science word-salad puff piece for Faye, he fails to back up his bigoted tantrum.

hedgehogger1 · 04/09/2021 08:55

I cancelled my subscription to the guardian after that article. It's no longer a news source just a mouthpiece to an agenda

JustWaking · 04/09/2021 09:01

The article closes with the question 'Who benefits from this?'

That's something I'm struggling to understand :

  • some people have suffered from dysphoria - either themselves or their children - and can't see past that to the wider consequences (but not many)
  • some sexual predators want to break down protections for women (again, not many)
  • some people hate women (I know we underestimate misogyny, but still...)
  • Some people probably just aren't thinking very deeply about it, and just jump on the righteous wand wagon.

But there are plenty of thinkers - journalists, politicians, industry leaders (please hold the sarcasm on this - these are groups who try to figure things out) who are so committed to to gender ideology who don't fall into any of these readons

Is it just that they didn't think about it much initially, and then confirmation bias kicked in?

I don't understand why so many people and institutions were captured.

JustWaking · 04/09/2021 09:07

*wand wagon = band wagon
Grin

CurrantTeacake · 04/09/2021 09:13

Had a good ole chortle at OJ’s article. Little does he know that he’s the biggest bigot of them all. All the pearl clutching at a gay man attending Pride in a t-shirt proclaiming his support for a LGB charity. The fake comparison to a Trump supporter turning up at an anti-Trump protest. He even disparaged Andrew Doyle, another gay journalist, for calling out woke homophobia.
Perhaps my biggest chortle was for OJ’s proclamation that the LGBA’s supporter are mainly straight! Dude, most of the TRAs are straight.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 04/09/2021 10:13

OJ’s proclamation that the LGBA’s supporter are mainly straight! Dude, most of the TRAs are straight

This is increasingly one of the logical absurdities.

But that's a different form of straight. Being queer acts as a modifier so straight isn't what it is for non-queer people.

Aren't we all trans or queer in some way given the size and coverage of the trans umbrella?

In your mind, I know you're still thinking in a heteronormative way, bigot.

Tibtom · 04/09/2021 10:26

fake comparison to a Trump supporter turning up at an anti-Trump protest.

A gay man visibly supporting gay rights at pride is like a trump supporter turning up at an anti-trump rally? So he is suggesting pride is an anathem to gay rights?

Abhannmor · 04/09/2021 10:30

We are all Trump fans and far right religious loons - says the man who has tap danced away from Corbyn very adroitly. I love the YouTube where he tries to persuade Alexi Sayle , an actual Jewish person , that Corbyns Labour was Antisemitic. Sayle basically crushes him like an irritating bug. I can't believe I once saw Jones as a refreshing new voice on the left.

Hoppinggreen · 04/09/2021 10:36

@yourhairiswinterfire

Yawn....Another transphobic thread.

You're the only person that's mentioned trans here...

Mentioning Trans on a thread about sex offenders? Thankfully that transphobic comment has been deleted
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 04/09/2021 10:47

What we do know that is that recorded homophobic and transphobic hate crimes have jumped every year since 2015, and yet with an estimated four in five still going unreported, the already grisly figures only hint at a far bleaker reality.

Does anyone know whether these hate crimes statistics include the tweets that have turned up in various cases? So, Harry Miller, Kate Scottow etc., would those be included? Marion Millar's tweets that were complained about but not part of the current legal action?

viques · 04/09/2021 10:48

self id is not only for genuine, honest people, it is for liars too.

And there we have it. It’s obvious really isn’t it once someone says it.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 04/09/2021 10:52

OJ :

the liberation of trans people – and indeed LGBTQ people as a whole – will free everyone. For example, a strengthened welfare state and solved housing crisis would provide a trans person rejected by their family with desperately needed independence; but those benefits would help anyone in need of security. The biggest killer of men under 45 is suicide: freeing them from rigid gender norms, which teach them to believe that opening up about their problems is unmanly or “gay”, will make them more likely to seek support.

How odd. Women's liberation was founded upon those demands and rejected. Is OJ now telling us that those demands are somehow more reasonable and actionable coming from Shon Faye? And overlooking that the cost of this for women will be that they'll never be able to discuss the material reality of a sexed body, that they'll be denied the use of shared language and shared spaces with others who share that material reality? That, there will still be a sex caste in which the material reality of a sexed body determines your position and power/vulnerability?

Cam77 · 04/09/2021 11:07

I'd give the Guardian newspaper of then last decade-ish about a 3/10. Trouble is the rest of the national papers are either a 2/10 or a 1/10.

SnoopyLights · 04/09/2021 11:15

@Mybalconyiscracking

So there are nude sessions for women, nude sessions for men and mixed nude sessions? Not sure that I understand the problem?
The nude sessions are single sex.

There are clothed sessions for when the two sexes mix.

dyslek · 04/09/2021 11:29

The Guardian; the paper that was all in for, the war in Iraq and Nick Clegg.

Surely they are never wrong?

There are two things I can think of off the top of my head, does anyone have any more examples of the Grun great judgment?

dyslek · 04/09/2021 11:33

@EmbarrassingAdmissions

OJ :

the liberation of trans people – and indeed LGBTQ people as a whole – will free everyone. For example, a strengthened welfare state and solved housing crisis would provide a trans person rejected by their family with desperately needed independence; but those benefits would help anyone in need of security. The biggest killer of men under 45 is suicide: freeing them from rigid gender norms, which teach them to believe that opening up about their problems is unmanly or “gay”, will make them more likely to seek support.

How odd. Women's liberation was founded upon those demands and rejected. Is OJ now telling us that those demands are somehow more reasonable and actionable coming from Shon Faye? And overlooking that the cost of this for women will be that they'll never be able to discuss the material reality of a sexed body, that they'll be denied the use of shared language and shared spaces with others who share that material reality? That, there will still be a sex caste in which the material reality of a sexed body determines your position and power/vulnerability?

Does LOJ have any understanding of the idology he is pushing so violently? Its nuts that he has no clue of what genderism is about.
AlfonsoTheMango · 04/09/2021 11:38

The Guardian is a rag not even fit for wrapping fish and chips.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 04/09/2021 11:39

Does LOJ have any understanding of the idology he is pushing so violently?
Its nuts that he has no clue of what genderism is about.

For somebody who has been acclaimed as brilliant and a powerful voice, I'm a little disappointed at this (feigned, surely?) show of ignorance about the origins of Women's Liberation. And that although there is a lot to be improved, the UK has a fair amount to be proud of given the rest of the world's lamentable performance in re: maternity leave and pay, parental leave etc.

There is a huge room for improvement. Oddly, Shon Faye's manifesto would not improve that for women given the benefits would solely accrue to one group of people with substantial harms and costs being incurred by another group with a (for now) protected characteristic that would effectively cease to exist.

secular111 · 04/09/2021 12:37

Glinner is scheduling a 'Mess We're In Special' about the Wi Spa scandal this weekend.

The focus appears to be on The Guardian and Sally Hines, who have both taken on the mantle of being apologists for sex offenders, particularly those who have women and girl victims.

It is though doing my head in. Hines can be excused to a degree, in that she has previous form and her late night tweets have long been suspected to be written whilst she is...well, not entirely fully-functioning.

The Guardian though? Surely it would have to be a senior editorial decision to present the newspaper to the world as a pro-sex offender publication?

What possible commercial advantage is there in doing so? Surely the readership and subscription base would be less than impressed being associated with a newspaper presenting such a stance?

I am thinking though that this is deliberate; that Katharine Viner has decided to hasten The Guardian's demise, rather than see it simply staggering along from one week to the next. Realigning The Guardian to be pro-paedophile/pro-sex offender should in theory see the sales plummet enough for The Scott Trust to bin The Guardian and perhaps save The Observer.

The Observer's editor, Paul Webster, seems to be trying to distance the editorial stance further from The Guardian, though it's been 8 years since one of its writers won an award (Rowan Moore for 'Critic of the Year') and The Observer, like The Guardian, simply refuses to perform top-drawer investigative journalism.

It's been five years since a Guardian journalist last won an award, and four years since even a sports columnist was recognised, so its writers are now really 'B' tier ones at best.

If Viner is deliberately realigning The Guardian to be pro-paedophile/pro sex-offender, in an effort to accelerate it's destruction, beyond the US Guardian contributors, I'd struggle to think who she can depend-on in the UK to back her cause. LOJ immediately spring to mind, and he has already been exposed as being complicit in the attempted cover-up of the Wi Spa scandal, which Andy Ngo exploded across the world. But anyone else? Even Gaby Hinsliff is unlikely to bow to a request to write in favour of sex offenders/paedophiles. And Hadley Freeman? No chance she would buckle.

Viner can perhaps bring in guest columnists to do her bidding, and Sally Hines would be an obvious choice. The new policy though, if indeed it is a deliberate policy and not just temporary daftness on Viner's part, is going to need the willing assistance of more writers than just LOJ.

OP posts:
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 04/09/2021 12:46

senior editorial decision to present the newspaper to the world as a pro-sex offender publication?

It's one way of styling it. I would think the preferred styling would be of a publication that is expanding Civil Rights in some areas that will encompass liberating the unliberated generations - if I recall the previous civil rights language and promotions of PIE correctly.

There's a remarkably good chance this attempt would be successful given how difficult it is to have a meaningful discussion in public or within MSM.

PamDenick · 04/09/2021 21:23

Interesting comments…
The Guardian is certainly making some strange editorial decisions.
It would be sad to see it go, but it does seem like it is encouraging loyal readers to abandon it…

RedDogsBeg · 04/09/2021 21:50

@dyslek

The Guardian; the paper that was all in for, the war in Iraq and Nick Clegg.

Surely they are never wrong?

There are two things I can think of off the top of my head, does anyone have any more examples of the Grun great judgment?

The Cologne New Year's Eve attacks on women.

When the Grun finally admitted the attacks had occurred and grudgingly reported on them one of their columnists (possibly Polly Toynbee) victim blamed the women who were attacked by declaring that the men who attacked them did so because they were so unused to seeing confident, western dressed women out and about with mobile phones and really the women should have known this and excuse their attackers.

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