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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

A clarification from Lancashire Police on Hate Incidents

75 replies

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 30/08/2021 00:27

Lancashire Police on twitter: Hi Jamesy, this is really disappointing to see 😞 We were made aware on the day, they were removed immediately and there were no further issues during the event. We take reports like this extremely seriously and have recorded it as a hate incident. Thanks

twitter.com/LancsPolice/status/1430115489037135872?s=19

The "it" in question?

Some bright pink stickers on lamp-posts and other street furniture.

You can see some pictures of them here.
twitter.com/Jamesliamcraig/status/1429828071977361414?s=19

So this is useful information on what qualifies as a "hate incident".

Meanwhile men raping women doesn't qualify as a hate incident, does it.

OP posts:
BraveBananaBadge · 30/08/2021 00:38

This 'disappointing to see' followed by an oh boo hoo emoji is the worst kind of reply.

I left a professional public sector Facebook group this week as I really couldn't take any more of the way they complained about members of the public not understanding them. This Owen Jones style smugness is such a worry.

spotcheck · 30/08/2021 00:45

I think context is important here.
I'm generally of the 'sex is biology' camp but those stickers, during pride are pretty unnecessary imo

NiceGerbil · 30/08/2021 00:49

@spotcheck

I think context is important here. I'm generally of the 'sex is biology' camp but those stickers, during pride are pretty unnecessary imo
The police are pretty unlikely to investigate who put them up.

The person said they got there at 730am to help organise and there were hundreds of stickers and they got them all off.

Which got a chinny reckon reaction presumably from ordinary members of the public.

Who pointed out if hundreds there must be CCTV.

And finally.

Who knows who put that sticker up? Could have been anyone.

LadyCatStark · 30/08/2021 01:04

Knowing a number of Lancashire police officers, that post will not represent their true views but will be what they’re made to say for PR reasons 😂

DdraigGoch · 30/08/2021 06:30

Anyone else find the used of smileys by a police account rather unprofessional? This is an account which has to tweet about very serious matters (appealing for witnesses to murders etc.) and yet they're talking in a rather whimsical way.

Saucery · 30/08/2021 06:46

They are currently asking for feedback on their Facebook communications, so there might be a similar survey on their Twitter where people can address the inappropriate use of Sadface emojis. I know that won’t help the fact they are treating biological fact as a hate crime, though.
The social media employee may have applied the ‘hate crime’ label on their own, maybe?

Tibtom · 30/08/2021 07:10

Doesn't 'hate' apply to religion or beliefs? In that case surely that tweet by the police should be recorded as a hate incident as it is implying that a protected belief is hateful? If anyone us feel that tweet is hateful then surely it is?

NotBadConsidering · 30/08/2021 07:18

When articles in places like the Guardian claim hate crimes against trans people have “sky rocketed” in recent years, they actually mean hate incidents; they deliberately misrepresent the facts. The reason they deliberately misrepresent incidents as crimes is because they don’t want their readers to realise they’re actually referring to stuff like this: stickers stating facts, ribbons proclaiming women’s rights, t shirts and hats stating same sex attraction. Hate incidents are now a waste of space.

merrymouse · 30/08/2021 07:45

@spotcheck

I think context is important here. I'm generally of the 'sex is biology' camp but those stickers, during pride are pretty unnecessary imo
I don’t know. The T was only officially added to LGB 6 years ago and sex definition is very relevant to gay rights.

When did Pride stop being political?Why must it be a sponsor friendly event that can’t challenge anyone’s beliefs?

Tibtom · 30/08/2021 07:56

Good point merrymouse. Why should an event which expressly intends to push one set on beliefs on a population and lobbies for that change, a political march that seeks to change the law to remove the rights of half the population and their ability to define themselves, be protected from alternative views? From those who disagree?

Tibtom · 30/08/2021 07:58

Why are the police taking sides in a politics and defining those who believe in the current legal stance to be hateful?

BraveBananaBadge · 30/08/2021 08:38

@Tibtom

Why are the police taking sides in a politics and defining those who believe in the current legal stance to be hateful?
You've put your finger on why it makes me so uncomfortable there, Tibtom.

As mentioned above in the group I left, the pervading attitude was an almost aggressive sense of 'why won't these stupid horrible people do what we're telling them' rather than open and honest communication.

NotBadConsidering · 30/08/2021 08:44

That’s the positive side of recording hate incidents I suppose. A tweet can be deleted, or walked back from. The fact this has been recorded as a hate incident means it’s now a matter of public record that in 2021, Lancashire Police thought someone putting a sticker stating biological reality on a lamppost was a hate incident. A process that was enacted to combat racism in the wake of Stephen Lawrence’s murder, and this is what they go with.

Their shame, if they have any, will be there for all time to see.

Tibtom · 30/08/2021 08:52

Nah, they will just delete

happydays2345 · 30/08/2021 09:15

Of course it is a hate incident, it's stickers which are targeting, and abusing a small group of people. How can you not see that?

happydays2345 · 30/08/2021 09:15

@LadyCatStark

Knowing a number of Lancashire police officers, that post will not represent their true views but will be what they’re made to say for PR reasons 😂
Not exactly surprising.

They tend to be racist, and misogynistic, why would they not be Transphobic as well?

happydays2345 · 30/08/2021 09:16

Hate incidents and hate crime are acts of violence or hostility directed at people because of who they are or who someone thinks they are.
For example, you may have been verbally abused by someone in the street because you’re disabled or someone thought you were gay.

H2H

NotBadConsidering · 30/08/2021 09:20

@happydays2345

Of course it is a hate incident, it's stickers which are targeting, and abusing a small group of people. How can you not see that?
Only if you think pointing out reality is abusive, and only if you think stating reality in public is “targeting”. This is the problem with hate incidents, perception is all that matters. If you perceive biological reality as hateful, you’ll see a hate incident. You see that, obviously. Everyone else sees the bleeding’ obvious.
NotBadConsidering · 30/08/2021 09:24

@happydays2345

Hate incidents and hate crime are acts of violence or hostility directed at people because of who they are or who someone thinks they are. For example, you may have been verbally abused by someone in the street because you’re disabled or someone thought you were gay.

H2H

No, hate crimes are crimes that have been committed that are deemed to have been motivated by hate towards a protected characteristic - but not sex.

Hate incidents are when anyone - not even the people involved, such as a passerby or the police in this instance - is offended by an incident involving the protected characteristics - but not sex - and can complain as such.

This person who found it isn’t trans, neither are the police, but they’ve decided it’s a hate incident.

Jaysmith71 · 30/08/2021 09:28

"Hate-Crimes" are crimes that would still be crimes if they were not hate-crimes. The hate is something determined by a court and considered an aggravating factor that would tend to suggest a more severe sentence.

A 'hate incident' is a 'non-crime' that has been reported by someone who says it is a hate incident, regardless of whether or not that person experienced the incident. This person does not have to provide any evidence that there was hate or even that there was an incident. They just have to say there was, and there was.

Tibtom · 30/08/2021 09:32

happydays do you agree that JK Rowling has been subject to extreme hate by translobbyist?

That the young man wearing a LGBAlliance t-shirt was subject to homophobic abuse at a pride march?

Thank banging on windows and trying to drown out the speakers at a womens rights meeting is hateful?

That demanding a group can no longer define themselves and their legal protections are removed is hateful?

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 30/08/2021 09:44

If a statement of biological reality is a hate incident, we are completely through the looking glass.

It's fucking insane.

Jaysmith71 · 30/08/2021 09:48

If someone reports that they heard that someone else looked at someone else in a funny way, that is a 'hate incident.'

yourhairiswinterfire · 30/08/2021 09:53

Hate incidents and hate crime are acts of violence or hostility directed at people

A hate incident isn't violence. It's a non-crime incident. Simply put, a non-crime hate incident it's ''muh fee fees were hurt''. Like seeing a sticker or a pretty ribbon, like seeing the dictionary definition of a word on a T Shirt, like someone on social media having a different opinion to you.

(So many transactivists, including politicians, ''progressive'' blue ticks, certain journalists etc, should count their lucky stars that misogyny doesn't count here, just sayin'...)

Hopefully the courts will find recording people for committing no crimes unlawful. Even if they don't, it looks like the gov has it's eye on binning them off.

Whatever will the bullies do when they can no longer report a woman for sneezing?

merrymouse · 30/08/2021 09:55

@happydays2345

Of course it is a hate incident, it's stickers which are targeting, and abusing a small group of people. How can you not see that?
No, it’s making a political point about the nature of sex. It is no more a hate crime than a banner saying ‘trans women are women’. The latter also makes a political point about the nature of sex and or gender. I disagree with this statement as I think it’s neither possible to change sex nor helpful to classify people according to gender. However I recognise that other people have a right to hold and express this belief. I also recognise that people have a right to express the fact that they believe and don’t believe in God.

‘Pride’ has always been political and there is no doctrine that says that gay people should all believe the same thing or that they should all believe that gender identity overrides sex.

Hope this helps.