Gay man 'bullied' off Manchester Pride for wearing LGB Alliance hat and t-shirt

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

LibDem activist delighted by this. Here are two of her tweets. The gay man who turned up in an LGB hat and t-shirt was allegedly advised by police to leave for his own safety and seems to have had the hat stolen.

Another young fool tweeted that 'bullying the guy in the LGB Alliance shirt who came to the protest march is my favourit part of Pride so far xx'. He has since deleted this (possibly because he is now sober and/or has seen how many people had reported this to his employers) and now claims he was just chanting 'Trans lives matter!'. 'Bullying' is an odd choice of words for this. How could anyone think admitting publicly to 'bullying' was a good look?

The LGB Alliance man has been advised that people shouting at him is actually assault if he wants to take it further. Doesn't sound like he does, though.

Unedifying, to say the least.

I am saying that their "prioritising looking after lesbians" isn't in improving access to healthcare, reducing homophobia in society, or doing anything that substantively improves their lives (or my life as a gay man) – it is simply focusing on trans issues.

But they think that gender identity ideology is homophobic in and of itself. Are you attracted to FTM trans people, as a gay man?

@RedDogsBeg

combatting homophobia in the workplace, etc.

How can you combat homophobia anywhere when you remove the right of people to be same sex attracted?

I simply don't see that improving access for trans people to health services, making it easier for those who wish to to transition, and allowing trans people to adopt their chosen identity without having to undergo medical treatment infringes upon my rights as a gay person.

Well good for you, how nice to be able to dismiss the negative effect it has on others because I'm alright, Jack.

Who has removed this right? Is it illegal to be same-sex attracted? Is it even mainstream within LGBT circles that one can't be same-sex attracted? It certainly isn't in mine. And not a single trans person I know thinks that it's transphobic or wrong to be same-sex attracted. Where has this view come from?

Eh? The one thing the LGBA don’t do is focus on trans issues

@FloralBunting

I've been homophobically assaulted, JustPassing and I disagree with you. He was attacked for wearing a logo of a charity specifically for LGB people. That is a homophobic attack. Just because you personally think an LGB organization should only have a focus you agree with doesn't change that.

Would it be a homophobic assault for someone to shout at someone wearing a Stonewall hat?

@JustPassingThrough3
Oh, and as a gay man, I hope that you’re open to engaging in penis in vagina “front hole” sex, otherwise you might find yourself being called a bigot…or far worse:

photos.google.com/share/AF1QipN6bUPUugEzmNmC-nZTunsVPUtgAuMANMmoVSD1j5gmROqY5E53VSCukHKc8zSRHA?key=bTMzMDNKeC1vbkFkRjlqTHJKM284RU1IQ3JkSlF3&pli=1

Which rights does reducing gender clinic waiting times or counselling waiting times remove from me?

Why should a group set up for L, G & B campaign for that?

@Theeyeballsinthesky

Eh? The one thing the LGBA don’t do is focus on trans issues

I urge you to look at their website, then, where the only six campaigns they list are all to do with trans issues and sex/gender issues ("transing the gay away", Allison Bailey being accused of transphobia, opposing GRA reform, opposing gender self-id in the census, engaging with EHRC on gender vs sex, opposing aspects of Scottish hate crime legislation to do with sex vs gender).

And not a single trans person I know thinks that it's transphobic or wrong to be same-sex attracted. Where has this view come from?

Google ‘cotton ceiling’.

Think about the very large number of people included in the trans umbrella.

Think about men who don’t believe a woman who says no.

@RedDogsBeg

Which rights does reducing gender clinic waiting times or counselling waiting times remove from me?

Why should a group set up for L, G & B campaign for that?

I've not said they should? The prior poster said that trans activists are threatening LGB rights. I asked how reducing gender clinic and counselling waiting times (i.e. what trans activists want) threatens my rights as a gay person.

I urge you to look at their website, then, where the only six campaigns they list are all to do with trans issues and sex/gender issues ("transing the gay away", Allison Bailey being accused of transphobia, opposing GRA reform, opposing gender self-id in the census, engaging with EHRC on gender vs sex, opposing aspects of Scottish hate crime legislation to do with sex vs gender

I literally copied and pasted from their website, and provided a link, on the previous page on this thread. Not one of the points mentions trans

And what special privileges are trans people asking for?

For a start, there are convicted sex offenders and rapists housed with women in prison right now, because the rapists claim they are women.

A woman who was sexually assaulted in prison took this to court. The MoJ think the risk of women being raped or sexually assaulted when locked up is worth it to spare the feelings of transwomen who have been convicted of rape or sexual assault.

Being given access to imprisoned, vulnerable women when you're a male predator because you say some magic words, is a privilege, not a human right. It's a privilege that activists and lobby groups campaigned for. This is what they wanted.

Allison Bailey being accused of transphobia, opposing GRA reform, opposing gender self-id in the census, engaging with EHRC on gender vs sex, opposing aspects of Scottish hate crime legislation to do with sex vs gender).

Allison Bailey is taking her Chambers and Stonewall to court for allegedly illegally discriminating against her as a lesbian who was outspoken on lesbian's rights. The pre-hearing has already happened. Stonewall tried and failed to get it dropped. But apparently there is a reasonable prospect of success.

Who has removed this right? Is it illegal to be same-sex attracted? Is it even mainstream within LGBT circles that one can't be same-sex attracted? It certainly isn't in mine. And not a single trans person I know thinks that it's transphobic or wrong to be same-sex attracted. Where has this view come from?

Are you serious? In a large field of evidence, lets just pick the most recent public example - Lil Nas X said he was definitely gay becauise he liked dick and got a slew of abuse for saying he was being transphobic. I mean, good for you if you've never come across any of the discourse talked about in this article, but it's happening.

lesbianandgaynews.com/2021/08/kay-knight-the-shaming-of-homosexuals-for-having-sex/

@plodalong12

I urge you to look at their website, then, where the only six campaigns they list are all to do with trans issues and sex/gender issues ("transing the gay away", Allison Bailey being accused of transphobia, opposing GRA reform, opposing gender self-id in the census, engaging with EHRC on gender vs sex, opposing aspects of Scottish hate crime legislation to do with sex vs gender

I literally copied and pasted from their website, and provided a link, on the previous page on this thread. Not one of the points mentions trans

You need to look further – click on any of the six campaigns and there are mentions of trans issues, of the sex v gender issue.

I'm sorry but that is just absurd. He was shouted at for supporting an organisation whose views and campaigns and focus people disagree with – not because he was gay. It was not homophobia, unless the definition has radically changed since I was last called a slur in the street.

Give over. He was targeted as a man who is same sex attracted for supporting an organisation that supports same sex attraction. Much of the trans rhetoric is that being same sex attracted rather than gender is transphobic. Hence the hatred towards the LGBA. So either you've been living under a rock, or you support that narrative. I don't care which one it is. But you do not have the right to dismiss the clear homophobia directed at another person. Maybe you should listen to his account of it, before deciding that you're going to speak for him.

Who has removed this right? Is it illegal to be same-sex attracted? Is it even mainstream within LGBT circles that one can't be same-sex attracted? It certainly isn't in mine. And not a single trans person I know thinks that it's transphobic or wrong to be same-sex attracted. Where has this view come from?

Playing the faux innocence card, I see.

I didn't say the right had been removed, LGBA are campaigning to ensure it isn't removed.

I'm not going to waste my time with someone who is pretending that the TRA agenda is not a wholesale assault on the rights of women, lesbians and gay men. There is evidence in bucket loads, you claiming you have never seen or heard it is disingenuous at best and an outright lie at worst.

@JustPassingThrough3
If you disagree with Stonewall, it doesn't mean you have to agree with LGB Alliance

But it seems if you agree with the LGB Alliance, you are at risk of being assaulted at gay pride, even if you are gay. Do gay people get attacked for supporting Stonewall by anyone other than homophobes?

[quote FloralBunting]Who has removed this right? Is it illegal to be same-sex attracted? Is it even mainstream within LGBT circles that one can't be same-sex attracted? It certainly isn't in mine. And not a single trans person I know thinks that it's transphobic or wrong to be same-sex attracted. Where has this view come from?

Are you serious? In a large field of evidence, lets just pick the most recent public example - Lil Nas X said he was definitely gay becauise he liked dick and got a slew of abuse for saying he was being transphobic. I mean, good for you if you've never come across any of the discourse talked about in this article, but it's happening.

lesbianandgaynews.com/2021/08/kay-knight-the-shaming-of-homosexuals-for-having-sex/[/quote]
But a small hardcore of people who do believe this does not mean that it's part of any official push to "redefine" gay, or that it is anywhere near representative of what the majority of LGBT people think. It's sort of shadow-boxing: fighting and getting angry over something that a minute number of people actually say.

I am saying that their "prioritising looking after lesbians" isn't in improving access to healthcare, reducing homophobia in society, or doing anything that substantively improves their lives (or my life as a gay man) – it is simply focusing on trans issues. That is inherently controversial at the moment.

Lesbians have been at the coal face of this 'controversy' and until the LGBA was formed they were pretty much screaming into a void about the detrimental effect they felt that trans males who identify as lesbian were having on their community and spaces.

Not every lesbian feels like this of course but a significant number do and we have heart wrenching posts going back years on this very forum from lesbian women trying to get people to listen to their distress.

Being inclusive might not be a very big deal for a lot of gay men because the power dynamic between males and females largely goes one way. Surely it's not impossible to understand though the concerns lesbian woman have and how uncomfortable they have been made to feel in spaces that should be a sanctuary for them.

@RedDogsBeg

Who has removed this right? Is it illegal to be same-sex attracted? Is it even mainstream within LGBT circles that one can't be same-sex attracted? It certainly isn't in mine. And not a single trans person I know thinks that it's transphobic or wrong to be same-sex attracted. Where has this view come from?

Playing the faux innocence card, I see.

I didn't say the right had been removed, LGBA are campaigning to ensure it isn't removed.

I'm not going to waste my time with someone who is pretending that the TRA agenda is not a wholesale assault on the rights of women, lesbians and gay men. There is evidence in bucket loads, you claiming you have never seen or heard it is disingenuous at best and an outright lie at worst.

Who sets this common "agenda"? Who is the leader of the TRAs and how were they appointed? What is their organisation? How do they set policy?

[quote plodalong12]@JustPassingThrough3
If you disagree with Stonewall, it doesn't mean you have to agree with LGB Alliance

But it seems if you agree with the LGB Alliance, you are at risk of being assaulted at gay pride, even if you are gay. Do gay people get attacked for supporting Stonewall by anyone other than homophobes?[/quote]
Could you kindly clarify for me how the man at Manchester Pride was "assaulted"?

@Quaggersx

I'm sorry but that is just absurd. He was shouted at for supporting an organisation whose views and campaigns and focus people disagree with – not because he was gay. It was not homophobia, unless the definition has radically changed since I was last called a slur in the street.

Give over. He was targeted as a man who is same sex attracted for supporting an organisation that supports same sex attraction. Much of the trans rhetoric is that being same sex attracted rather than gender is transphobic. Hence the hatred towards the LGBA. So either you've been living under a rock, or you support that narrative. I don't care which one it is. But you do not have the right to dismiss the clear homophobia directed at another person. Maybe you should listen to his account of it, before deciding that you're going to speak for him.

I have listened to his account. And what happened to him was not homophobia. He didn't declare "I am gay!" and then get attacked for it. He was wearing the logo of an organisation whose approach and focus people expressed their disagreement with (in an admittedly over-aggressive way). That is political disagreement, not homophobia.

I am saying that their "prioritising looking after lesbians" isn't in improving access to healthcare, reducing homophobia in society, or doing anything that substantively improves their lives (or my life as a gay man) – it is simply focusing on trans issues. That is inherently controversial at the moment.

As you have said, you are a gay man, in a discussion over a lesbian-founded organisation, with mostly women, many of us lesbian or bisexual ourselves, or the mother of a lesbian daughter. Your perspective on what "looking after lesbians" should look like is going to be very different to what any of us think it looks like.

We think women being sexually coerced is a massive problem, and fighting against that will substantively improve lesbian lives, and we have rather a lot of "lived experience" why.

I asked how reducing gender clinic and counselling waiting times (i.e. what trans activists want)

Nobody disagrees with reducing waiting lists.

Trans Activists campaign for legal recognition of gender identity and the removal of any service or regulation that distinguishes on the basis of sex rather than gender.

But a small hardcore of people who do believe this does not mean that it's part of any official push to "redefine" gay, or that it is anywhere near representative of what the majority of LGBT people think. It's sort of shadow-boxing: fighting and getting angry over something that a minute number of people actually say.

It's very easy dismiss from an ivory tower, isn't it? You've not used a lesbian dating app and been inundated with male 'lesbians' or tried to find a local lesbian group for anything and been offered a 'trans-support' group instead when you asked. Or been asked your pronouns because as a butch lesbian woman it's assumed you think you are actually male, which is homophobia as old as the hills.