Absolutely sick of the terms birth parents and chest feeding

[PTPmum]

Honestly. Are there other peer supporters, counsellors, midwives, health visitors etc who feel in a similar position?

I am really passionate about breastfeeding and have been since having my kids. I got a lot of support from counsellors and lactation consultants when my first was born and I have wanted to "give back" for lack of a better phrase since then. I've been keen to volunteer and help other mums but I feel as if the breastfeeding support groups have just been infiltrated with all of this trans nonsense and they spend more time worrying about offending people with the terms mother and breastfeeding as opposed to focusing on the probably what? 99.5% of people who are standard women, have given birth to a baby and want help BREASTFEEDING.

These organisations are already chronically underfunded and under supported in this country and I'm finding it so hard to be enthusiastic about the training because they are constantly bombarding us with images from LGBT groups and "queer birth clubs" it just makes me sad because this is something I was so keen to do and it's just another aspect of our society being taken over by this trans mentalism.

I have name changed for this post for obvious reasons.

You're in good company here OP. I despair at the sheer stupidity of those busy eradicating women's experiences, bodies and language from the most fundamental of female experiences.

It’s ridiculous. All the focus on pandering to these manufactured issues and sensitivities is taking focus from babies and their mothers.

When organisations and groups go down this path you have to wonder how many actual people have told them they feel disenfranchised, put off from seeking support, upset by correct terminology vs the surely much larger who feel these things by the dehumanising language and skewed narrative.

The push for inclusivity is at the expense of so many already marginalised groups - women who don’t have English as their first language, women with SEN, women who aren’t neuro typical, who understand what mothers, babies and breastfeeding are but might be completely confused by the new ridiculous made up words now taking over.

It’s a tragedy. People will suffer. And for what?

Can anyone explain why it's chest feeding? (I know you're unlikely to agree with the reasoning, but I don't even know what the reasoning is!) Whatever gender anyone identifies with I don't see how milk is produced by anything other than breasts? Even if someone fully accepts the whole gender thing I don't see how this change of terminology fits in.

Men have breast tissue albeit not much. They can and do get breast cancer.

I have not seen breast cancer charities attacked for using breast cancer.

The attacks are always related to certain things while other stuff with the same language is ignored.

Because it's not about that it's about disconnecting the female people (formerly known as women and girls) from our reproductive systems.

Me too, OP. I have done some things with LL over the years and have a lot of breastfeeding experience that I would love to pass on, but I am not getting involved in that kind of bs or playing lip service to it. I am quite capable on my own of being sensitive to individuals in need as in any practice where you interact with all kinds of people. But I'm not talking bs all the time as if I think it is real, and I'm not going to say nothing because iMO it's damaging. So - I have just backed away.

It’s precisely the word breast and it’s very strong association with biological women that seems to be the issue. Though there are several obvious issues. Men can also have breast tissue and get breast cancer. Rare but it happens. Chest refers to lungs - chest infection etc - while everyone knows what a breast is. If the word breast is upsetting for a gender dysphoric woman who presents as a man, surely the act of feeding a baby milk from your breast is more so.

X post on several points, slow typing!

@MurielSpriggs

Can anyone explain why it's chest feeding? (I know you're unlikely to agree with the reasoning, but I don't even know what the reasoning is!) Whatever gender anyone identifies with I don't see how milk is produced by anything other than breasts? Even if someone fully accepts the whole gender thing I don't see how this change of terminology fits in.

The claim you see most often is that if you have dysphoria attached to your breasts, that using the word triggers it. But it would be possible to deal with this in specific circumstances without changing teh whole language use.

The less often said, but more often practiced reason is that breasts are associated with women (even if not entirely medically accurate,) and TM can birth and nurse babies as fathers, and so calling it "breast" feeding is implying they are women not dads, and is therefor offensive.

I came here after seeing a shared post on FB about ‘not all people who give birth are women’ and it made me feel a bit queasy, in a ‘worlds gone mad’ kind of way. I needed to read some stuff written by sane people to feel normal again.
So yes, I fucking hate being described as a birthing parent and if I object then to be told, it’s not about me
And the term chest feeding makes me want to cry.

If this topic was being approached reasonably and with genuine concern.

Then the push would be for-

Websites to have trans specific sections. And policies to specifically support those who are trans on a more individual level.

For trans individuals use of language they feel comfy with.

The breastfeeding thing.

The number of females who ID as not women, and are pregnant, and want to breastfeed are very small in number.

Breastfeeding is a long standing widely used term. It's used by governments, global health orgs etc etc. The stats around it have been collected for a fair old while.

A trans person in that situation will presumably not want to attend a group where everyone else is a bog standard female.

And rightly so as it will not be optimal for anyone and individual support is certainly better and warranted.

That sort of thing.

The approach actually being taken doesn't make things better for anyone.

Still not getting it. Isn't it similar to transwomen with penises? Have they been rebranded? Do all men now have to call their cocks something else?

The other point I have noted is that breasts are a Big Deal with all this and seem to be seen often as THE thing that separates men from women.

It's all very male gaze imo.

@NiceGerbil

The other point I have noted is that breasts are a Big Deal with all this and seem to be seen often as THE thing that separates men from women.

It's all very male gaze imo.

But calling them something else doesn't make them go away, nor stop men from "gazing"!

I use the term birth parents because I'm adopted e.g. birth Mum, birth Dad, so I'm very that it would be used for anything else.

Well exactly.

Culturally breasts are frankly fetishised. By men I mean. At the same time often mocked. And the subject of a lot of judgement. Too big too small. Too old put them away. Bf in public yuck.

They're seen as being about erm. Vagina Havers and very much to do with sex.

Loads of men when talking to a woman with big boobs don't look at her face. Not a person really but TITS!

so when a person wants to 'signal' man/ woman. From a male pov breasts are very very key.

It's all so male gaze.

We need new groups. The existing ones have sold us down the river.

We need woman centred groups with a core philosophy of respecting, protecting and supporting the mother-baby dyad.

We need groups committed to “mothering the mother” to supporting mothers in the often psychologically and emotionally vulnerable time of matrescence. Groups which value mothers and support the development of confidence in being the best mother for her own baby for individuals attending the group.

We need groups which will provide exclusive spaces only for mothers so we can speak freely to each other about our experiences of pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding and mothering.

We need new mother centred, woman centred, exclusive groups.

@NiceGerbil

Well exactly.

Culturally breasts are frankly fetishised. By men I mean. At the same time often mocked. And the subject of a lot of judgement. Too big too small. Too old put them away. Bf in public yuck.

They're seen as being about erm. Vagina Havers and very much to do with sex.

Loads of men when talking to a woman with big boobs don't look at her face. Not a person really but TITS!

so when a person wants to 'signal' man/ woman. From a male pov breasts are very very key.

It's all so male gaze.

I'm now picturing hairy-arsed builders hanging off the scaffolding as a middle-class transman goes by, shouting "lovely pair of chests guv'nor"

Sorry @NiceGerbil re *
For trans individuals use of language they feel comfy with.*

Do you mean everything then has to be changed so trabs individuals dictate and state the language that is used?

Trans not trabs!

No.

I mean that when a female person who does not consider themselves a woman. And who is pregnant. And wants to bf. IE hardly anyone.

Wants bf advice or support its in everyone's interests that they get individual support.

And the existing accepted understood language should be left alone because it is what pretty much all of those who want bf support understand etc.

And additionally it's widely used by eg WHO in studies and initiatives to reduce child mortality etc.

I am at work so can't yet respond to each comment individually however I will in time.

Just want to say I am so RELIEVED at these comments.

Also want to chip in that the online Facebook groups for trainee supporters have very specific rules and one of them is that we cannot begin a post by writing "Hello Ladies" as not all of the group members are ladies anyone who slips up and writes this is chastised by the admin and made to edit or take down their post.

Birth parents is fine by me. It refers usually to parents (women) who gave birth but whose children were adopted or fostered.

To be fair I'm definitely not a lady, this makes me think of genteel fragrant creatures in twin-set and pearls. (Or Little Britain)

@Tinpotspectator

Birth parents is fine by me. It refers usually to parents (women) who gave birth but whose children were adopted or fostered.

To be honest, that’s the reason I don’t really like it. I wouldn’t like someone to refer to me as DD’s birth parent. It implies an absence of continued involvement. There’s nothing wrong with giving your child to be adopted but I didn’t, so a word that most people would associate with that doesn’t apply to me.

@Tinpotspectator

Birth parents is fine by me. It refers usually to parents (women) who gave birth but whose children were adopted or fostered.

Which is fine when it is used in that context. There is a push to use it instead of 'pregnant woman' and that is what many women (and men) object to. Only females can get pregnant and breastfeed. It is a uniquely female experience. That is why certain groups want to eradicate the language that links to our sex. I was a pregnant woman and I breastfed. I will not change that language.