My 17 yo DD tells me she is a boy but I seem to be such a terrible mother for not going along with it

[pixiecolour]

My DD has a terrible time growing up, really struggled, was bullied at school and has had issues with mental health for a while now (we have entered the CAMHS zone 💩). Aged 13 she spent time at school with a girl who transitioned, and told my DD that all her worries were really down to the fact that she is actually a boy. Cue the Dysphoria (self diagnosed) and now she is 17 hates me because I can't go along with the whole thing, but I can see through it. Communication has broken down and we are in a very dark place.

Helping gender-dysphoric people feel comfortable in their bodies makes no one much money; turning them into lifelong patients is highly profitable.

Helen Joyce - Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality

Imagine what this teenage girl has been through and what pressure she's been under. We see a trickle of posters on this thread affirming her as trans believing they are right and kind. Imagine what it's been like for her when as a 13 year old her friend tells her she's trans and then online people will have affirmed this - these relationships change a person, rewire the brain. She's on a path created by East Coast American colleges, which has got nothing to do with who she really is.

What matters more, showing your child that you love and support them or your beliefs on the validity of being trans?

Aren't both important? Loving and supporting your child, whilst also maintaining a foundation in reality?

You don’t believe they can change their sex. That’s fine but would it cost you so much to use their preferred name and/or pronouns. They are the exact same person whether they call themselves a boy or a girl

Agree re name. And sure, pretending some females are male has a less disastrous set of consequences for females as a class than pretending some males are female.

But in this case, using preferred pronouns, ie "social transition", going along with the pretence that the child has changed sex, may well harm OP's daughter. It has been shown that social transition leads to medical transition in most cases. And the reality of female to male medical transition has been covered by another post.

What matters more, showing your child that you love and support them or your beliefs on the validity of being trans?

Do you think helping your child down a medical pathway of transitioning into a life long patient is showing love or support?

The pressure to socially transition a girl using SHAME on this thread is just a glimpse of the pressure to socially transition this girl IRL and thousands like her

This pressure to socially transition girls didn't exist before American East Coast academics (inspired by Michel Focault) made it a religion. The whole of human history and now look where we are.

Can I just point out that I am suggesting OP uses her child’s preferred pronouns simply as a way of not alienating her and of trying to keep lines of communication open so that she can protect them.
I am in no way suggesting that I believe this child can change sex or should be encouraged to do anything irreversible.
I just think it might be one small way OP can show she’s not the enemy, my experiences of teens is the harder line you take the more it can push them in a direction you don’t want.
I just think that this one small thing could show the child that their Mum is prepared to listen to their point of view (even if they don’t agree)

We see a trickle of posters on this thread affirming her as trans believing they are right and kind. Imagine what it's been like for her when as a 13 year old her friend tells her she's trans and then online people will have affirmed this

A few posters on this thread have said or implied that they know this child better than her own mother does. And they can't see the problem of online diagnosis of someone with a serious condition which would lead to them becoming a lifelong medical patient.

To all those posters who have been doing this: have a think about what you have been saying to a mother who has serious concerns about her child's mental health. How do you think you are helping with your amateur diagnosis of a child you have never met and about whom you know next to nothing?

If dysphoria isn't an illness then why do those who claim to have it say that they need medical treatment? (And often referred to as "life-saving" treatment.)

Something else I just remembered which might help the OP and anyone else with a teenage daughter who identifies as transgender. Lily Maynard's account of what happened when her teenage daughter decided she was a boy. Lily's daughter eventually desisted, and there is also an account here by her daughter.

4thwavenow.com/2016/12/17/a-mums-voyage-through-transtopia-helps-her-daughter-desist/

Her strategies for dealing with this are likely to be of far more help than the advice of well meaning amateurs who have never had to deal with this with their own children (we know that because they would have told us if they had).

@Kittii

If dysphoria isn't an illness then why do those who claim to have it say that they need medical treatment? (And often referred to as "life-saving" treatment.)

You'll never get an answer to that. It's one of those unanswerable questions along with: why do children need treatment at puberty if they identify as trans, but it's OK for an adult male who identifies as trans to have no medical treatment and just declare that his penis is now a female organ?

@OldCrone

Something else I just remembered which might help the OP and anyone else with a teenage daughter who identifies as transgender. Lily Maynard's account of what happened when her teenage daughter decided she was a boy. Lily's daughter eventually desisted, and there is also an account here by her daughter.

4thwavenow.com/2016/12/17/a-mums-voyage-through-transtopia-helps-her-daughter-desist/

Her strategies for dealing with this are likely to be of far more help than the advice of well meaning amateurs who have never had to deal with this with their own children (we know that because they would have told us if they had).

Just because I haven't mentioned my child's entire life story does NOT mean that I have no experience of this.

I take offence at being called a "well meaning amateur" when you have absolutely no idea what our family have lived through for the past few years. And no fucking idea what a difference it made to my teen when the whole family accepted her as she was.

I don't remember you say by her hospital bed after her overdose that she took because she was too scared to tell us who she really was.

I don't remember you stood next to me and noticing marks on her arm because she hated her body so much.

Next time think before you post crap like that.

I didn’t go along with it either and my now 21 year old (autistic, BPD) daughter recently admitted it was all a response to a sexual assault in her teens. Do not cave to this bollocks. In our case therapy helped a lot.

That sounds incredibly difficult cricketmum84
I really hope your child is doing better now

Your poor child velvet

Such a rational response in one way

That comment wasn't specifically aimed at you @cricketmum84.

There are a number of posters on this thread who have said 'you must affirm with chosen pronouns' etc, as if that is the only way to tackle this issue with a child who identifies as transgender. Those are the ones who I was labelling 'well meaning amateurs', as they appear to think themselves such expert psychologists that they can diagnose a child who they have never met. That label wasn't intended for any parents who have had a child go through this who must be making very difficult decisions about how to handle this with their children.

I didn't mean my comment to be aimed at parents who have struggled with this themselves, and I apologise for not considering that parents who had might not wish to disclose this. It wouldn't be necessary to give anyone's life story to indicate this - just say 'I've been through this', but I do understand that some parents might want to participate in the discussion without disclosing this, so I realise that yes, that was a thoughtless comment. I'm sorry I upset you with my comment and I hope you and your child are in a better place now.

But I stand by what I said about you not knowing the OP's child. You know your child better than anyone else on here does. The OP knows her child better than we do. And that 'we' includes everyone else on this thread, including those who also have a child who identifies as transgender. You wouldn't want us to diagnose your child (who we have never met). Please extend the same consideration to the OP.

@cricketmum84 your experience sounds horrific, I'm so sorry you've been through all that.
This is a different child though, it's very important to acknowledge that however much experience you have had with your own child, you do not know someone else's child in the same way.

I'm not claiming to be an expert for a second. Just pointing out that I'm hardly an amateur.

No I agree that all children are different.

However one thing that I have learned is that most children just want acceptance, love and understanding. And refusing to use their preferred pronouns isn't really meeting those needs.

It's hard and it takes a long time to get your head round it. I called my DD by her initial for a little while as it felt so alien using her new name. But then older family members refused to accept her at first and I fought her corner until they realised how much more happy and settled she was. I still slip up sometimes now, I mean I brought her up for 15 years using a male name and thinking of her as my little boy! But at the end of the day her happiness is more important.

Thank you for all the kind words x

cricket

oldcrone did say amateurs who haven’t gone through this with their own children, she wasn’t meaning you at all. It must be very hard

💐

Children just want ...

Isn't the same as children need

Children do need acceptance, love

But they need more

They need acceptance and love for who they are not who they want to be

They need to understand how they fit in the world . Feet on the ground as well as head in the sky

It's incredibly hard because unlike when I grew up there is so much misinformation and manipulation that affects their heads and mental state and capacity

Crone, thanks for this link it's brilliant. especially her daughters story in her own words.
4thwavenow.com/2016/12/17/a-mums-voyage-through-transtopia-helps-her-daughter-desist/

@Unfashionable

In a few months time, your daughter will legally be an adult and will be able to do, or change, whatever she wants to her own body. I would suggest that it is not in your interests to behave like previous generations of parents who refused to accept that their children were gay and rejected them. If you insist on doing this, you will only alienate her and you & her will inevitably become estranged.

Is that really what you want?

"behave like previous generations of parents who refused to accept that their children were gay and rejected them"

I think this is a really offensive comment. There is a huge difference between stuck-in-the-mud, worried-about-what-the-neighbours-think homophobic parents of the 1950s, 60s and 70s and what this parent is going through. The op says communication has broken down down not that the child has been rejected.

Maybe parents of anorexics should just accept their child is "fat" for fear of being thought a bigot too?

What you're really advocating is going with the curtain twitchers and cower with the loudest bullies - in fact exactly the thing the frightened parents of the past did.

Midge

Great comment.

Children also need their parents to think really hard about what's in their best interests and to be prepared to be make and stick to very difficult decisions.

My DD is in her 20s and a happy lesbian so I haven't had to deal with this but I wonder what might have happened if she were ten years younger.

I hope I would have been able to support her fully without colluding in fantasy.

I wouldn't be happy with this at all. But as she is nearly an adult you will have to accept it in the end. Ssme as you would need to accept if she was gay and you wanted to maintain a relationship.