"It's not terrorism": Plymouth *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[EmbarrassingAdmissions]

As soon as everyone saw the "It's not terrorism" reassurance last night wrt to the wretched events in Portsmouth - how many of us knew that the media would report a story about a young man with history of anger about lacking sexual experience with women?

[X] 23, a bodybuilder who appears obsessed with not being attractive to women and being without a girlfriend, has been named by people in the Devon naval city as the gunman with a five-year-old girl and several relatives feared to be among his victims.

I won't use X's name.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9890209/I-Terminator-Rambling-videos-fat-ugly-virgin-23-went-rampage-Plymouth.html

archive of article: archive.is/CkHNb

@PlanDeRaccordement

Men kill other men at 3x the rate they kill women, so it would be hard to say there is a radicalisation misogyny problem when 74% of murder victims are actually men, not women.

It really isn't.

Men seeking out women to murder, simply because they are women, or because those men feel hard done to by 'women' in the lump, is a misogyny problem of an extreme kind.

Male-on-male violence is a different issue.

His mother. Again, as soon as they released the age of the victim, a woman killed in her home, it was too easy to guess what might have happened. Horrific beyond words.

@LouHotel

This is my city so my social media is awash with images and people in despair. Plymouth has a town mentality you tend to know everyone by only a couple degrees of separation.

''Their were 6 victims' brigade are out in force already blaming his poor mental health and being let down by the system. Its making me so angry. His entitlement led to him killing those poor people in broad daylight, this is a hate crime.

It's my city too. Hug x

Of COURSE he was! Those poor people who lost their lives.

I don't think labelling this awful crime as terrorism is very useful in getting to the root cause. Neither does blaming it on Trump. The underlying question is where, when and why did the alienation start? How do we help boys grow up well adjusted? These are our sons and brothers. We have a serious issue in our society with men who feel worthless, hopeless and rejected and who turn to violence. Attempting to label it terrorism is just a distraction.

‘The first person killed was his mother’. That poor woman.

I live in Plymouth too. DH is 43 and DD2 is 3.

This is horrific and of course it is misogynistic terrorism. Of course it is.

@JoyousAsOtters

‘The first person killed was his mother’. That poor woman.

She tried to get him help for his mental health, apparently

I certainly think the Government needs to address inceldom and men's mental health more generally.

Being a virgin in your early 20s is unusual perhaps but not outrageously so. And I don't think he was as 'fat' and 'ugly' as he thought he was. Imagine if he'd got some counselling and help with his anger issues.

I am NOT excusing what he did at all. I imagine there are lots of people who feel like he does, but thankfully don't go down the incel route.

@MurielSpriggs

I don't think there is hyperbole - can you point it out please? And actually considering the subject in the OP ..,

I'm not the OP, but the hyperbole is here:
Every woman in the UK and in fact, the world lives in fear of men and their violence.

How is this hyperbole ? I don’t know a single woman who doesn’t adapt their behaviour at some point to avoid male violence - not walking alone at night, or down a dark road, not sitting in the train carriage with only one lone man, not walking past the gang of teenage boys somewhere secluded. I also don’t know a single woman who hasn’t at some point felt scared of a man, been harassed, groped, had abuse shouted at her. Or worse, been assaulted, attacked, raped. I think it is so normal that some women don’t even notice that they adapt what they do.

I should think that a fair number of us might recall Louise Raw's piece from 2018. The part that has stayed with me was this (for which I haven't found another reference):

“If you have fascists in your town, female partners will be at huge risk of domestic violence.

“These people are wedded to violence, and the mental health impact on children is huge. This can be seen in the school system, where [children may] display racist abuse towards other children, whilst also struggling with the abuse they live with and the isolation they feel at school.”

archive version of the article: archive.is/i9MW8

morningstaronline.co.uk/article/struggle-women%E2%80%99s-liberation-goes-hand-hand-struggle-against-racism-and-fascism

I remember thinking about this sort of incident as a form of something that feels like morphic resonance for violence that ostensibly isn't organised but has a common thread in its aetiology and outcomes.

Laura Bates;
"He clearly had extremist beliefs that related to hatred against a specific demographic, in this case women, and then committed a massacre.
"If that was the case in any other situation... I would argue rightly that we'd describe that as terrorism, and it's really problematic we can't make that link when the particular form of terrorism we're talking about is the violent hatred of women."

archive.is/74bLi

''Incels: A new terror threat to the UK?

Florence Keen, who researches incels at the International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation at Kings College London, says that one of the biggest forums has 13,000 active members and around 200,000 threads.

"The caveat I would always give is that we can't say that the whole of the incel subculture is violent," she says.''

www.bbc.com/news/uk-58207064

I don't feel confident that Florence Keen understands the risk of radicalization or violence in the same way that Laura Bates does.

Jonathan Hall QC, the terrorism watchdog, last month referred to the threat from terrrorism becoming 'more blurred' where it is 'hard to distinguish between what is conventionally understood as terrorism and what is not.'

He said there were 'considerable difficulties' in identifying whether desires to kill expressed online, particularly when expressed by the young, will translate into acts of terrorism in real life.

'If there is an ideological component, and I think there may well be one, it is a nihilism which seeks the end of days,' he said.

'It has something akin to the revolution of the unhappy or the 'beta uprising' carried out by incels or involuntary celibates.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9891119/The-rising-threat-incels-Plymouth-gunman-expressed-solidarity-misogynistic-movement.html

@Thelnebriati

''Incels: A new terror threat to the UK?

Florence Keen, who researches incels at the International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation at Kings College London, says that one of the biggest forums has 13,000 active members and around 200,000 threads.

"The caveat I would always give is that we can't say that the whole of the incel subculture is violent," she says.''

www.bbc.com/news/uk-58207064

I don't feel confident that Florence Keen understands the risk of radicalization or violence in the same way that Laura Bates does.

A new terror threat?

Didn't count when it was only women and children being murdered, but it does now men have been victims, too?

@toomanytrees

I don't think labelling this awful crime as terrorism is very useful in getting to the root cause. Neither does blaming it on Trump. The underlying question is where, when and why did the alienation start? How do we help boys grow up well adjusted? These are our sons and brothers. We have a serious issue in our society with men who feel worthless, hopeless and rejected and who turn to violence. Attempting to label it terrorism is just a distraction.

The reason that it isn’t a distraction is the common features.

Many male terrorists have a history of being perpetrators of domestic violence and being abusive to women.

Perpetrators of terrorism are often now radicalised on-line and are more likely to act independently.

The post upthread "radicalised male violence" is extremely apt.

Name the problem.

@ScreamingMeMe
Imagine if he'd got some counselling and help with his anger issues.
He got precisely that - an anger management course.

Like many such courses, going through the motions - but in this case it provided him with the ticket to get his gun license back. So unfortunately it's a case of imagine if he hadn't got "help" with his anger issues.

Vanessa Kinsul's thread addressing:

the disparity in how certain boys deal with the loneliness and social exclusion that SO MANY experience is deeply troubling to me.

archive of thread: archive.is/RmCqh

twitter.com/Vanessa_Kisuule/status/1426177456684273665

Her original thread she quote tweets:

I find it interesting that ‘incel’ has become synonymous with angry boys who think they are owed sex when the incel term, and community, were initially pioneered by a woman for ALL genders who lamented a lack of sex/romance in their lives.
…
It is straight white boys, who are taught that the world is theirs, that cannot handle the world’s disdain or, shock horror, its indifference. But to them I say, welcome.…‘The unwanted’ is a club replete with members. These boys don’t want love, btw. They want status. If you read their online diatribes, they're obsessed with obtaining the attentions of hot, skinny, Aryan bombshells - retrograde archetypes straight out of 2005. They want the associative gravitas. The woman herself is collateral

archive of thread: archive.ph/mEsK5

twitter.com/Vanessa_Kisuule/status/1372267558301229057

Yasmin Khan and advisor to the Welsh government on VAWAG has just given an excellent summary of what needs to be looked at. Mentioned a project in the NE of England's she's involved in where they've "seen an increase in that kind of community that's perpetuating patriarchal systems."

"We need to understand the root cause of the ideology for crimes against women"

(Six music, Huey show at 11:30)

@PlanDeRaccordement

Men kill other men at 3x the rate they kill women, so it would be hard to say there is a radicalisation misogyny problem when 74% of murder victims are actually men, not women.

Oh that’s how it works is it? Misogyny isn’t a problem because men kill other men at a higher rate. So gang crime for example isn’t a problem because most murder victims aren’t in gangs?

We know that more men are murdered than women. We also know that a very high percentage of murders - over 95% iirc - are carried out by men.

Male violence in all its forms is the issue here. Violence and what breeds violence. Women are too often marginalised as murder victims and their sufferings are too often reported and pored over in a lascivious and titillating fashion that resembles pornography.

Gang violence is being tackled; knife crime is being tackled. Those mostly have male victims. Intel violence is being downplayed and perpetrators portrayed a victims themselves.

Women's lives are not valued as highly as men's, it seems.

Incel, not intel. Autocorrect, get a grip.