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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Douglas Murray asks: Does Owen Jones have a woman problem?

184 replies

RoyalCorgi · 06/08/2021 09:43

I think we know the answer:

unherd.com/2021/08/does-owen-jones-have-a-woman-problem/

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SmokedDuck · 10/08/2021 15:13

@Freespeecher

If we take OJ's rebuttal piece seriously (and he hasn't always been a good faith debater), I wonder if part of the problem is that women / feminism doesn't really fit into what he classes as his socialist world view of automatically backing what he sees as the oppressed party no matter what - as there are fewer trans people than there are women OJ will always back the former.

(On a similar note there was a featured comment on the Guido Fawkes site where someone explained how it was hard for those with a Marxist approach to deal with the ISIS as Marxism has no religious aspect. I took this to mean that, rather than consider them religious fundamentalists looking to inflict their beliefs on the rest of the world, those whose worldview is always through this rigid prism could still see them as the oppressed minority as a racial or cultural group. Obviously this is on a different level to the current trans debate but I do think the connection is the limitations of always considering issues via a simple oppressor/ oppressed approach - I know it's possible to argue that women are the oppressed party in the trans issue but my personal view would be that it's better to abandon that game rather than try to win it and focus rather on the safeguarding angle - the practical angle will do better with the general public than a theoretical one).

Part of the problem is that Marxism emerged out of reflection on an economic relationship. It's not all clear that it can be applied directly to every other type of relation. I would say for example in the case of sex, there are real limits to how closely it can be applied, given that we are never going to make men and women functionally equivalent, and most people likely would not want that anyway.

Isis is an aggressive fundamentalist worldview. It's also full of young people who have been radicalized in large part through their experience of disenfranchisement. It's not going to fit into a marxist binary easily.

RoyalCorgi · 10/08/2021 20:21

Read Engels on marriage:

www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/ch02d.htm

He had a much better grasp of feminism, and the unequal relations between the sexes, than little OJ.

I mean, OJ did a history degree. At Oxford. I wonder what they taught him because he seems to lack the basics, frankly.

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Beowulfa · 12/08/2021 08:08

I was in Waterstones yesterday lunchtime. Jones' latest lefty whine was on the Buy One Get One Half Price table. Only someone had piled novels by female writers on top of his books.

WeeTorag · 12/08/2021 09:28

@Mollyollydolly

It's a great article 'Youtuber Owen Jones' made me laugh out loud.
The best bit!! Clever and intended to incite rage in LOJ. 🤣
Tesla73 · 12/08/2021 09:39

I used to know someone who worked at Waterstones and I had a mini rant to her once about how Quentin Tarantinos book was displayed throughout the shop but could only find Oliver Stones on the shop.

She informed me that this doesnt mean its popular - when they plaster the shop with copies of certain books its becuase they have loads of unsold copies and can't shift them so they use them to fill display gaps instead

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 12/08/2021 18:58

@Beowulfa

I was in Waterstones yesterday lunchtime. Jones' latest lefty whine was on the Buy One Get One Half Price table. Only someone had piled novels by female writers on top of his books.
Grin
FOJN · 12/08/2021 19:29

I was in Waterstones yesterday lunchtime. Jones' latest lefty whine was on the Buy One Get One Half Price table. Only someone had piled novels by female writers on top of his books.

Is it unseemly for middle aged women to engage in childish acts of rebellion? Asking for a friend.

Cismyfatarse · 12/08/2021 19:55

Waterstones in Edinburgh needed a bit of a tweak when I was there. "Detransition Baby" worked well in the transport section. "Trans" needed to be front and centre of the best new books section.

It had to be done.

merrymouse · 12/08/2021 20:46

"Detransition Baby" worked well in the transport section.

Having read some reviews, this book would actually seem to be a good companion read for anyone reading ‘Trans’.

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