Trans prisoners in Ireland: update

[SuperSleepyBaby]

Update here
www.lawsociety.ie/gazette/top-stories/prison-officers-must-train-up-in-lgbt-awareness-and-terminology/

Fuck me that is chilling.I’m Irish and I fear for the direction the country is blindly hurtling towards.
If I read it correctly it sounds as though female officers have had a male office present when they are carrying out searches. Presumably for the safety of the female officer, as they are searching a male bodied individual. However that’s not validating enough for the TWs so that safety net will be removed. Sickening.

Have people’s brains fallen out of their heads? How could any sane person write this?

Well, as long as incarcerated women aren't endangered in any way. Or be used as validation or support humans without their explicit consent.

International best practice indicates that transgender prisoners should be given a choice regarding the gender of the person conducting a search, but the inmates raised concerns that when searches were being conducted a male officer was present as well as a female officer.

Obviously the safety of the female officer is irrelevant. Given the fact that the two transwomen prisoners in Limerick prison are probably the two transwomen convicted of appalling violent crimes against women, any female officer could be in considerable danger.

Did the inspectorate visit women and gather their testimonies, I wonder? Or the female officers who they seem to wish to be forced to inspect male sexual organs (and withdraw any safety measures for those officers)?

It does say that prisoners shouldn't be put at risk of violence, ill-treatment or physical, mental or sexual abuse. I presume that women prisoners are still classed as human and would have those same rights. I would have thought trapping women in confined spaces with a convicted violent or sexual abusive male would be in danger of violating those fine sentiments. Or is women's role as support animals more important to the Inspectorate?

Sorry for the slight derail, but I'm getting sick of reading that this is an LGBT+ issue.

IT'S NOT! It's not an LGB issue it's a T issue. It might be a + issue as I have no idea what + is, but it's nothing to do with LGB.

The male prison officer can simply be gender fluid yes?

If the prisoner can choose the 'gender' of the officer, that has nothing to do with sex doess it. Because if it IS about sex then a male police officer is appropriate.

And a male prisoner identifying as a woman should be absolutely fine with a male police officer who identifies as a woman. Because how could this possibly be triggering if they are both women? Not about sex is it?

@aliasundercover

Sorry for the slight derail, but I'm getting sick of reading that this is an LGBT+ issue.

IT'S NOT! It's not an LGB issue it's a T issue. It might be a + issue as I have no idea what + is, but it's nothing to do with LGB.

So much this.

QT+s are pushing this. None of that bullshit has anything to do with lesbian, gay or bi sexuality.

Nobody should be locked up for 23 hours a day. Surely it highlights how completely inappropriate it is to have male bodies in the female estate, if the only solution is to keep them totally restricted for the safety of others (/themselves?). Presumably on a male wing they would be entitled to more freedom, or in a third space.

Incidentally I just read in an article that the women’s wing of the prison is the oldest and most run down. That was from 2014 - anyone know if it has changed since?

Well, maybe not nobody, but if prison isn’t just about punishment then it’s hard to see how it can meet any other aims in one hour outside of a cell.

In NZ any male convicted of sexual or violent offences may not apply to be placed in a female jail. ROI same size, same outlook. Is that an example worth drawing to attention of your authorities?

They should not be locked up 23 hours s day that's horrendous.

They should be in the male estate and looked after the same as other vulnerable male prisoners.

Or- and if had surgery for chest implants/ full surgery. Then the risk may not be fully mitigated . In which case a separate facility / area would be in order.

The inspectorate are prioritising them over the women as usual.

There is never mention of
Other men who are vulnerable in the male estate
Trying to sort out the violence in the male estate (would take time but would help so many inmates)
Third space

The answer is always in with the women.

If either of these people are in for sex offences against women/ girls, or violence. Then putting them in with the women is unconscionable. Screams fuck them don't care.

Wasn't Kardashian in Limerick?

I can't find the outcome of Kardashian prosection.

Was remanded in custody in women's estate Limerick prison.

www.limerickleader.ie/news/news/580587/teenager-accused-of-making-threats-to-kill-remanded-in-continuing-custody-at-limerick-prison.html

I've been googling like mad and I can find

No report on the verdict/ whether the case has been heard
Where BK is

One site has article removed

There is hard work going into hiding/ suppressing things like this.

My guess is BK is one of the prisoners in this report.

Do these people have full I've changed my gender certs or whatever one gets, or can they just announce I'm transgender and go to women's prison? I can't see why a prison guard can't just say they are also transgender if that's all it takes.

It's an online form in Ireland

For those who aren’t aware, one of those prisoners is this person, who very violently attempted to kill their female care worker while she was looking after them, and has expressed an indiscriminate desire to kill women.

www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-teen-charged-with-making-death-threats-against-two-individuals/

But the important issue here is that woman prison officers don’t invalidate “Barbie’s” identity by having male backup present during a search.

Having read about Bk at the time. They have had a horrific life. Incredibly disturbing.

BK is obviously a massive risk to women and girls and needs serious help.

If they are one of those locked up for 23 hours s day then that isn't right at all.

My opinion is their background, actions and tbh appearance all indicate needs massive help. They are young and totally fucked up.

Surely a MH facility for those who are dangerous would be best all round?

They are an extremely damaged, extremely violent individual.

Loads of stuff has been vanished. Could only find this.

'Kardashian is reportedly a deeply troubled individual who spent much of her childhood in care since the age of 10. Court documents say she was “born into a household of extreme depravity and domestic violence”, while her parents had a “sadomasochistic relationship”.'

For me it's a

No full stop to being in women's estate
No to being locked up 23 hours s day (if they are one of those in the article)

This person needs to be having decent psychiatric help in a secure environment.

IMO.

An older article from 2019
www.lawsociety.ie/gazette/top-stories/male-bodied-transgender-inmate-housed-with-women-prisoners/

Read that earlier while searching.

If the situation is that TW are placed in women's prisons then locked up 23 hours s day then. In what way do they think this is ok?

It's not ok.

Being seen to be on board with prison according to gender ID and in practice that means treatment like that is appalling.

They don't know what to do, do they.

Prisons have been put in this position. Apparently unanticipated 🙄.

And result is a shitshow all round.

IF bk is there. It is an appalling way to approach things.

They need to be in secure mental health facility.

I can’t bring myself to be concerned about Barbie’s wellbeing tbh.

But I’m very concerned that this report could lead to a forced relaxation of the safety precautions around Barbie resulting in women in that prison having to live and work in fear, until inevitably one of them is attacked or killed. IIRC the other male in Limerick prison is also a dangerous sex offender.

I'm sorry to hear that.

Everyone deserves to be treated humanely.

Their history as a child is extremely abusive. In care. Longer pieces were available before.

Why do you think this extremely disturbed individual is not deserving of help?

Do you know for sure one of them is BK?

If there's a relaxation then that's on the prison service, govt, authorities.

They know if it is BK they present a massive risk.

If they say yep into the general population that is on them.

BK is clearly very very disturbed. It's not right to lock up 23 hours s day. No matter what crime.

Prison is for punishment, rehabilitation, protection of the public.

BK will be released at end of term. If spent however long living like that. Well it won't have made them less incredibly dangerous will it.

They should be in a secure MH facility. No risk to women. Getting help. Different rules apply- not released until better even if that means never.

What's the Irish equivalent of Broadmoor. There is where they should be.

I never said they weren’t deserving of help. Those are your words and your projection. “Deserving” is a meaningless concept. They should be given whatever help is appropriate for them.

I said I don’t care about them. My concern is for the women who have to live and work with this unstable and dangerous individual.