Trans prisoners in Ireland: update

[SuperSleepyBaby]

Update here
www.lawsociety.ie/gazette/top-stories/prison-officers-must-train-up-in-lgbt-awareness-and-terminology/

What I find fascinating is when you Google, results for BK are very few.

Work has been done to get things deleted/ removed.

Who?

And I checked the Ireland courts site where you can search judgements. Nothing. Maybe the case hasn't been heard yet...?

In short I couldn't find out.

Where they are
Whether they have been tried
Any of the original reports in the Irish press

That's really sinister to me.

So often people seem to be pretty much vanishing from results.

Hmm. Got an idea...

I can't find any updates at all.

I have found something that says there are 2 males in Limerick women's prison. Assume BK is one. The other is s sex offender.

Women think they "know" that but what does "know" mean?

Do you mean as in able to produce chapter and verse of the precise reference that demonstrates it?

because I do!

;-)

Is anything-else working so well?

Sorry NiceGerbil, didn't mean to sound like I was violently disagreeing with you.

In theory, I completely agree that a secure forensic setting would be the most meaningfully therapeutic place for an individual like BK.

However, I think that in practice a lot of the same issues would arise. Because Ireland has full self-ID they would be automatically treated as a female patient. And the number of beds in high- (ie Broadmoor) or medium-secure services for women is pitifully low because there really aren't many dangerous, mentally ill female patients. So if BK was transferred there, they would still be:

• removing access to a highly sought after therapeutic service from a woman in need
• endangering all the patients and staff in the service
• likely to end up spending extended periods in seclusion as a way of managing risk because everything else is unsuitable.

It's an absolute mess. I'm so frustrated that the entire forensic system is having to contort itself to this ridiculous extent to accommodate individuals who identify as having a female gender identity, but who clearly cannot be managed safely in the female prison estate.

(Two asides:

1. Looking at this article, it seems like Ireland has basically one secure hospital for the entire country, with 20 female beds, which is horrendously low:

www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/not-guilty-by-reason-of-insanity-inside-the-central-mental-hospital-1.3544665

1. Iirc, Ireland doesn't count any form of personality disorder as a mental illness, so it may not be possible for even seriously damaged individuals like BK to access forensic services without another MH diagnosis like psychosis)

Yeah - Ireland excludes personality disorders from involuntary detention under the mental health act. I suspect that means that forensic services would not accept a referral for a patient with a primary diagnosis of personality disorder.

www.irishlegal.com/article/teen-with-personality-disorder-to-be-released-from-involuntary-detention

Yes agree.

Mine was an ideal world thing.

In general prisons in the UK (don't know about Ireland) are in a really bad way. Drugs, violence, untreated MH issues, suicides and more.

It's crap. But very few people care. Or at least not the ones with the purse strings.

NiceGerbil

TUSLA, the child protection agency in Ireland, sent letters threatening media outlets saying if they didn't remove coverage of BK, that they would take them to court.

The first person in Limerick womens wing, is a peadophile who sexually and physically abused their step son for 2 years.
This person tried to appeal their sentence because of how difficult it is being a transwoman in a woman's prison.

I did see a few links with Tulsa but didn't know what it was.

I'll have a read.

@Oncewasblueandyellowtwo

NiceGerbil

TUSLA, the child protection agency in Ireland, sent letters threatening media outlets saying if they didn't remove coverage of BK, that they would take them to court.

Yes, there is a lot going on behind the scenes to ensure that nothing negative about TW ever gets out in the public sphere.

The only thing strange about TUSLA getting involved is I thought BK was 19 or so, legally an adult then. Or is it because he was under the care of the state as a child?

Anyway the Irish media are fully TWAW and so crimes committed by TW are reported as women for the whole articles, so it's hard to even find out information.

No there are ?? about what it had to do with them. Over 18.

Yes BK is an an adult, TULSA are a child protection agency so it is odd that they wanted to close down discussion on a person no longer under their care.

Here are court transcripts, available online, this person appealed a special care order made by a child protection agency.

www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5da049e34653d07b2518ff8a

The other thing, remembering when this all started.

BK was in care. Unmanageable. Violent. Sexually assaulting women around them. No sense of remorse, displayed little emotion at all except apparently relating an attack to a MH professional.

When turned 18 I think it was. No option in law/ etc except to release into community.

Local police so worried they issued a warning in the area. That's when it got picked up.

If this was the remit of TUSLA then they could have acted to minimise this risk surely.

But no, nothing legal anyone could do.

And yet it is their business to write to websites hosting the story and tell them to remove it?

And it's worked- very little when you search. Nothing since the original hearing when remanded into custody in women's prison back in 2019 I think it was.

When the authorities are actively working to hide any info about a highly dangerous criminal. Then that doesn't shout yep we're confident our policies etc are brilliant does it.

This is the only more detailed info I can find. The info is in accord with wider reporting at the time (now been vanished).

archive.is/5rdyH

I think most ordinary people know that don't they?
NO
my jab nurse was appalled.

She kept saying with a look of horror on her face "I had no idea it was as bad as that."

NO they really do NOT know it.

Pommie69

No, most do not know, but this was purposefully done. There is a document by Dentons, Thomson Reuters and a Trans group that sets out how to achieve self I.D.
Irish trans activists achieved self ID by:
Keeping press coverage to a minimum, latching onto a more popular reform and by lobbying individual politicians .

www.iglyo.com/only-adults/

It's hardly surprising the public don't know when the government are actively suppressing reporting on it.

Finding poking around!

'RR511 The Green Party reject any stigmatising of asexual and aromantic people and recognise that asexuality and aromanticism are part of the diverse range of human experience. The Green Party would expand the Equality Act to be inclusive of asexuality.'

I have never had it explained about this.

If you don't want to have sex then you don't.
I mean not tricky.

No one gets abuse for walking down the street without a partner.

@NiceGerbil

It's hardly surprising the public don't know when the government are actively suppressing reporting on it.

The problem is we have Self ID law enacted in Ireland, and so this facilitates all sorts of nonsense. It even says on the notes of the legislation that changing your gender (by filling out a form) for all legal purposes changes your sex .

So they can then keep up the charade with legislation to back them.

@NiceGerbil

Finding poking around!

'RR511 The Green Party reject any stigmatising of asexual and aromantic people and recognise that asexuality and aromanticism are part of the diverse range of human experience. The Green Party would expand the Equality Act to be inclusive of asexuality.'

I have never had it explained about this.

If you don't want to have sex then you don't.
I mean not tricky.

No one gets abuse for walking down the street without a partner.

Jesus, what a load of nonsense. They really are scraping the barrel.

I really with the Green Party would focus on climate issues, not this crap!

I fear we are gone so far down the rabbit hole of ridiculousness, it will take a huge effort to even turn it around.

*wish

Anyone want to pop over to feminism chat and the thread about green policies?

I've written some essays 😕

'NiceGerbil

It's hardly surprising the public don't know when the government are actively suppressing reporting on it.

The problem is we have Self ID law enacted in Ireland, and so this facilitates all sorts of nonsense.
It even says on the notes of the legislation that changing your gender (by filling out a form) for all legal purposes changes your sex confused.

So they can then keep up the charade with legislation to back them.'

What law exists saying govt agencies should act outside their remit and order reports about (some?) criminals to be deleted/ removed from sites?

as long as no misgendering I can't see any justification for that at all.

Oh sorry, I meant about the accurate reporting of this person's identity in the media etc.

I don't know under what authority TUSLA performed this massive overreach. It would be interesting to read the letter they wrote.