Will Hubbard make people think?

[InspiralCoalescenceRingdown]

I'm not so sure. Certainly doesn't seem to be the case with DW or MIL. I knew DW was Be Kind, but didn't expect my MIL to support males in women's sports.

No I don't think so.

Not a prominent category- 100m or similar would get more attention.

Didn't get a medal.

This is awful but true I think- a lot of people esp men have always judged women by their looks. Really strong women often get 'looks like a man'.

If it was Wimbledon. 100m. Or a sport that is widely watched and the athletes are generally slim young meeting stereotypes of attractive. Then I think more would notice.

Harsh and horrible but that's what I think.

the athletes are generally slim young meeting stereotypes of attractive.

To conflate two recent feminist issues…

How long would it take for sporting authorities governing handball to allow bigger shorts if it was a cock and balls that needed to be discreetly hidden and not women’s period protection?

I think Hubbard has definitely opened some eyes. Would have opened more had we had another podium picture with two women in second and third place, heads drooping in unfair defeat.

But if the poor performance was intended to prove that including men in women’s sports was perfectly fair, they’d have done better to have chosen a young, fit candidate to lose, and persuaded them to make at least some attempt to look distressed, rather than sending a middle-aged, unfit one, who looked about as sad as Eddie the Eagle would have done after crashing out right at the beginning.

No, what I'm seeing in discussions elsewhere is:

(a) See, the cheater didn't win therefore cheating is fine

(b) It's Ph0BiC to say that TW have a male body

(c) Let's wrangle endlessly about LH's pronouns, to distract the discussion from the actual issue of male bodies in women's sports.

Just seeing that male pattern baldness in a women's competition was outrageous. You only get that from testosterone! It's infuriating it won't be enough to peak people.

Good article by Sean Ingle in today's Guardian. You could perhaps show it to DH and Mil. How long before Ingle is driven out I wonder? He reiterates the point about hormone levels being more or less irrelevant once you have gone through male puberty. And the young woman in Nauru who missed out .

@InspiralCoalescenceRingdown OP surprised to hear your MIL supports males in women's sports. The Fox Killer on the subject of males in women's sports said "All are trying, with dignity and care, to adapt to a world that is not binary." The choice of words is interesting - 'dignity' to remove sex based rights. 'care' to remove women's sports. 'a world that is not binary' conflating sex and gender. Is your MIL under a spell? or not aware of the facts? god knows you don't see the facts in the BBC or the guardian.

Some people won't, no. That's why it matters to speak up, because people don't tend to pay any attention to things unless someone is cobsisyebtly bringing it up. Why do you think the TRAs flood different media with all the heart rending testimonies of transition with the emotional angle? They know to make people care you have to keep talking about it. We need to be as focused, tbh.

This clip of the female weightlifters making way for LH
mobile.twitter.com/laura92brown/status/1422211403990118400

good suggestion @Abhannmor

He was a mess performance wise.

Placed in the team to make a statement.

Then so over the top ' stereotype female distraught' when he failed.

@Abhannmor

Good article by Sean Ingle in today's Guardian. You could perhaps show it to DH and Mil. How long before Ingle is driven out I wonder? He reiterates the point about hormone levels being more or less irrelevant once you have gone through male puberty. And the young woman in Nauru who missed out .

Just read the article thanks for pointing to it. It is good. It actually covers all the issues, unfortunately it also describes Hubbard thusly "She did not take questions but, sounding vulnerable and a little sad..."

For goodness sake this "transwomen are vulnerable" mantra really gets tiresome.

Hubbard is a flippin obviously male person built like a bus. If I ever came across Hubbard in any woman's space I'd feel terrified and vulnerable! How does being a (rubbish) weightlifting person with a penis make you vulnerable in any way whatsoever.

Sorry it's a bit of a rant there but you get this "vulnerable" thing all the time.

First got annoyed by it after JB the transflasher at the NUS described themself as "vulnerable"... Yeah okay what about the people who unexpectedly saw your erect penis.

Anyway back to the topic,
I remember when Hubbard sprained his wrist during a previous women's weightlifting event and almost feeling disappointed.

It was a few years ago when only a small minority of people were talking about "the issue" but I remember thinking it'll only give Twitter TRAs the ability to say "see, no advantage, look LH sprained his wrist" and I was right.

Now I think LHs performance will indeed give more rise to the "see no advantage" brigade.

GNCG - I agree. LH failed to record a successful lift & now we're being told - what's the issue? We should all 'Calm down, dear'.
This is not inclusion, this is displacement.

Well I guess I’ll reword my previous post from this thread which was moderated as apparently it’s fallen foul of the talk guidelines.

My husband’s views seem to have changed significantly on seeing LH compete yesterday. This was a topic we couldn’t see eye to eye on until that point.

Yes GNCQ I wonder if he had to include the 'sad and vulnerable " to get it past the Borg?

Fear or discomfort has led to people not supporting LH, apparently. People are just people, too. PROFOUND I tell you, profound.

Also, LH is speaking so carefully trying to make LH's voice not as deep.

Profound indeed

[quote FindTheTruth]This clip of the female weightlifters making way for LH
mobile.twitter.com/laura92brown/status/1422211403990118400[/quote]
Hubbard looks far from vulnerable there, expecting (and getting) the female competitors to make way for Hubbard, instead of joining on at the end. Twat.

@Mrsjamin

Fear or discomfort has led to people not supporting LH, apparently. People are just people, too. PROFOUND I tell you, profound.

Also, LH is speaking so carefully trying to make LH's voice not as deep.

17 likes to 230 dislikes so far.

Ok some TRAs on twitter are saying that the weightlifters would have designated spots on the stage so that's why Hubbard did that. Does anyone know of that's true? I don't trust a word that comes from TRAs on twitter. But I also don't want to unfairly criticise someone. A small point I know, but still! I want to be better than TRA smear merchants.

Interesting to see how Hubbard is pretty much being described as transgender or a transwoman. What happened to TWAW?

@ScreamingMeMe
I wondered about that, even if true it doesn't explain why LH didn't go on stage at the same time as the women, why did LH felt the need for the late entrance and making women get out of the way.

2 minute clip of the medal winners press conference:

The contrast between the respect that Emily Campbell has for her training partner and fellow medallist Sarah Robles, and Robles' reply to the LH question, could not be more plain.

Well done all 3 for their composure (and for their brilliant performances!)

I may have ranted to dh at the bbc news description of Hubbard as 'born biologically male'!! How about 'is biologically male' since sex can't change. No issue with Hubbard choosing to compete but huge issue with the ridiculous approach of the IOC washing their hands of it and leaving individual sports to make their own rules (but come under the enormous pressure the IOC are abdicating). There doesn't need to be precise lines drawn for each individual sport, when xx and xy are the obvious fair status quo option.