Female Namibian runners change events due to too high testosterone

[KevinBaconsJeans]

Just spotted this on my newsfeed and very confused. I've seen on another post that there is no maximum limit for women's natural testosterone. So does that mean that this BBC article is lying by omission about the sex of the runners to create a story that isn't true?

It talks about two Namibian runners who have had to switch to different events because they have high T...

www.bbc.com/sport/africa/58029941

Extract:
Her initial excitement at an Olympic qualification however was crushed when she was informed by World Athletics that she would not be able to compete in the 400m event at the Games due to high levels of testosterone.

"In the beginning I was very down, you can't come and tell me now I am not a woman. That is really frustrating and gets me on my nerves but there's nothing we can do about it at the moment," she told BBC Sport Africa...

"It is really unfair because you cannot expect everyone to be the same, everyone to have the same abilities, we are born with different abilities, we can't be the same it doesn't make sense."

Masilingi was only informed in July by World Athletics that her testosterone levels were beyond the allowed limit for female athletes wanting to run in distances from 400m to one mile, unless they medically lower their testosterone for a period of at least six months

Amazing results Andy. Totally amazing

I cannot think of a single woman who could switch from the 400m to the 200m with very little notice and win a medal.

Even in this fawning article from the guardian's Barney Ronay (which lays on the 'cruelty' with a trowel, he admits Mboso's technique is shit: 'Mboma looked terribly nervous, but perked up to smile at the camera. She was slow out of the blocks, and lagging into the bend. At which point she just let it go (“I don’t give up, I keep pushing”), arms pumping a little wildly, but catching Thomas, who grimaced, losing that wonderful stride as she was passed. Ahead of them both Elaine Thompson-Herah won the race in a hugely impressive personal best, then took a moment to lie prone on the track. Mboma barely looked out of breath.'

That was the semis. In the final of course, Mboma just held back and then powered through at the end, leaving Shelly-Ann Fraser-Pryce trailing.

Fraser-Pryce and Thompson-Herah don't get on but there was a lot of warmth between them at the end of that race.

I genuinely think the Olympics has "peaked" me 😳

The injustice of it all against women and girls in sport has pushed me over the edge.

I've coached hundreds of children boys and girls. I've watched them succeed, fail, grow in confidence and learn dedication.

To think some of the bright little souls I have coached will now be pushed out by genetic conditions and "be kind" genuinely makes me so sad.

Does anyone know if Maria Mutola has had children? She worked with Semenya after retiring.

'A clear and insolent injustice against women.' (Marcin Urbas) Quite so!

So Coe thinks because they only got silver the rules are working and were beaten by a woman.

I give that 2 years. Tops.

'Mboma looked terribly nervous, but perked up to smile at the camera. She was slow out of the blocks, and lagging into the bend.'

I noticed on the TV roundup the other night Michael Johnson (who's got quite firm views on this, I sense) made a point of mentioning that Mboma was so technically inept that using starting-blocks and knowing how best to negotiate the bend was an issue. And yet Mboma still took the silver.

And also, yet again, that Guardian headline is absurd. It totally misrepresents what Coe said (and I too am in no way a fan of his).

Unless the rules are tightened up Mboma will be taking gold in the 200m before too long & then there will be nothing to stop them targeting the 100m too.

Absolutely terrible how many journalists do not mention that these athletes are DSD. Instead they pretend they are just like any other women, except with high T levels. That that is the only thing going on. They completely omit the reason for these high T levels - they are males with DSD conditions.

German ARD did much better on this, they made a fairly good short documentary, mentioned these things and definitely said things that in US/UK would have earned them a huge shitstorm.

This is what I saw him quoted as saying:

And when Lord Coe was asked whether the youngster could break Florence Griffith Joyner’s world record he replied: “I think it’s possible,” adding that this “probably” would then give the governing body more questions to contend with where the rules are concerned

That doesn't sound as though he thinks this is sorted. Which it quite plainly is not.

According to wiki Mboma only took up athletics in 2017!!!
I wonder how many of the athletes they raced against have had such a short career…and I wonder what or who prompted them to suddenly decide to take up running age 14 (quite unusual for a teenage girl to suddenly get into sport id say)

German ARD did much better on this, they made a fairly good short documentary, mentioned these things and definitely said things that in US/UK would have earned them a huge shitstorm.

Is that available online, please?

It gets worse. Caster Semenya broke the World 600m record in 2017. Hardly out of breath at the end.

I read Coe’s comments positively actually. To me he’s saying Mboma’s clear male advantage demonstrated that the ruling was right to stop these athletes from running 400m-1500m and other distances need to be looked at.

Doesn’t help Gabby Thomas get a sliver and Fraser-Pryce get a bronze though .

Great summary (as usual) by Prof Ross Tucker on this whole topic and the DSD policy. Useful for the newbies on this thread. Talks about it from 13 mins into the podcast.

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-real-science-of-sport-podcast/id1461719225?i=1000528340757

At about 20 mins into the podcast Tucker suggests a huge increase in performance between the ages of 16-18 (compared to females) is a characteristic of XY DSD athletes.

Could these medals be removed retrospectively? Or are they set because the competitors qualified under the rules at the time? I'm wondering whether medals could be awarded retrospectively.

I doubt it. None of those who came 4-6th in Rio have a medal, including Lynsey Sharp.

To do so would admit they were wrong and people like Semenya weren’t the real winners (newsflash - they weren’t) but I don’t think they would risk the political fallout.

The RTÉ commentators spoke about this a bit including the great Sonia O' Sullivan but I felt there was an element of don't mention the war nonetheless and DH started to make noise just at the wrong moment so I couldn't hear exactly what was said. RTÉ have a version of that Reuters article on their website too.

I was telling my DM about it - she just happened to phone while the 200m final was on - and she was outraged and just called it out as cheating. I think most people just don't realise and haven't heard, or tune out at DSD and naturally high levels of testosterone. Internal testes is what all the reports and articles need to say.

www.sportsintegrityinitiative.com/dsd-regulations-call-out-athletes-as-biologically-male/

From the article I posted above.

‘World Athletics has in fact done a longitudinal study comparing performance of biologically female and biologically male athletes, which we call the world records’, continued the World Athletics spokesperson. ‘Over decades, these prove time and again that there is substantial difference between the best-performing male and female athletes (8-12% across different athletics disciplines, much more in other sports). The scientific consensus is that this is due to the substantial differences in size and strength of muscles, bones, the heart and the lungs (which drive strength and power) and in serum haemoglobin (which drives endurance) caused by the enormous sex difference in levels of circulating testosterone between females (46XX) and males (46XY), which emerge during puberty.’

The "longitudinal study comparing performance of biologically female and biologically male athletes, which we call the world records" made me laugh. It's actually unbelievable that anyone would pretend a male bodied person has no advantage over a female bodied person.

I thought they had set level at 5 units for males to compete?

Isn't that a bit contradictory?

Their policy includes

'World Athletics wants its athletes to be incentivised to make the huge
commitments required to excel in the sport, and so to inspire new
generations to join the sport and aspire to the same excellence. It does
not want to risk discouraging those aspirations by permitting competition
that is not fair and meaningful.
(b) Most relevantly for present purposes, because of the significant
advantages in size, strength and power enjoyed (on average) by men
over women from puberty onwards, due in large part to much higher
levels of androgenic hormones, and the impact that such advantages can
have on sporting performance, it is necessary to have separate
competition categories for males and females in order to preserve the
safety, fairness and integrity of the sport, for the benefit of all of its
participants and stakeholders.'

And then

'World Athletics recognises that Transgender athletes may wish to
compete in Athletics in accordance with their gender identity. World
Athletics wishes to encourage and facilitate such participation, on
conditions that go only so far as is necessary to protect the safety of all
participants and to deliver on the promise of fair and meaningful
competition offered by the division of the sport into male and female
categories of competition. '

The policies I've seen seem to be explicit that no matter what the evidence, the answer will not be no.

Starting point is must allow.
Only question is where to draw the line, that seems both inclusive and thought out.

It's a shame Dina Asher Smith wasn't fit to run and get into the 200m final. Britain's golden girl and reigning 200m World Champion being beaten out of a medal position by this person, may have led the Guardian and BBC to think twice about their glib support for this blatant cheating.