IOC admits trans guidelines not fit for purpose

[KevinBaconsJeans]

And yet somehow twaw

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20210730143410/www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/30/ioc-admits-guidelines-for-transgender-athletes-are-not-fit-for-purpose" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20210730143410/www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/30/ioc-admits-guidelines-for-transgender-athletes-are-not-fit-for-purpose

There is some research, but it depends on whether you are coming from the view of inclusion as the first priority or absolute fairness to the nth degree being the priority,” he said

Since when was the olympics ever set around inclusion? They have always excluded disabled athletes and so the Paralympics was set up instead. Oscar Pistorius had to jump through hoops to be allowed to compete in the Olympics, had to prove his blades gave him no advantage whatsoever. Absolute disingenuous prick.

I predict a (strategic) loss for Hubbard. It will do gender identity ideology proponents no good at all for Hubbard to win. And they will crow "look, there's no unfair advantage".

Nevermind the women who leave sport before reaching elite level, because of the unfairness of it all. Or those who are bumped from the team to make space. Or those in collision sports who end up retiring early due to injury.

It absolutely boils my piss

@KohlaParasanda

The trans men are competing as women too. Which seems appropriate if they delay hormonal "transition" until after they've stopped competing in sport.

But this proves that sex is the thing that matters and everyone knows it.

The whole fuss is the demand to play in one's chosen gender identity because inclusion. Identity matters and sex doesn't.

Why, I wonder, would these men be much preferring to compete with women instead of exercise their right to be included in the sex class they identify with?

Because everyone knows they'd stand no chance of winning against that sex class

I have no problem whatsoever with TM competing in the women's sex class. I have a huge problem with the hypocrisy that TW should also compete in the women's class and have no advantage when it's ruddy obvious that TM would likely never successfully even qualify for men's events. It just means women lose. And lose. And lose.

And we are supposed to politely listen to a lot of men with no skin in the game enjoy intellectually wanking all over their opinions as the voyeuristically decide the degree of misogynist oppression to inflict on women.

Getting angrier. Every day.

I predict a (strategic) loss for Hubbard. It will do gender identity ideology proponents no good at all for Hubbard to win. And they will crow "look, there's no unfair advantage"

I think he’ll probably throw it too, although you can never underestimate the ego on one of these narcissists.

I do t think Hubbard will lose strategically. They are 20 years older than their competitors, have had several injuries - they’re just not that good relatively speaking. The problem is they’ll probably legitimately be about 4th/5th best & everyone will go “god women! All that fuss and they didn’t get a medal!! Clearly there’s nothing to worry about”. It shifts the window of acceptability so that next time younger fitter TW will compete

@KevinBaconsJeans

I predict a (strategic) loss for Hubbard. It will do gender identity ideology proponents no good at all for Hubbard to win. And they will crow "look, there's no unfair advantage".

Nevermind the women who leave sport before reaching elite level, because of the unfairness of it all. Or those who are bumped from the team to make space. Or those in collision sports who end up retiring early due to injury.

It absolutely boils my piss

This has to be addressed.

It is not in the interests of TW athletes who compete in the women's sex class to perform too well or to win too much.

As in the tests to acertain advantage: it is not in the best interests of the TW participants to perform at full strength or demonstrate what they can really do.

There is undeniable pressure and self interest involved to pull strength, to carefully play the game.

Any female athlete playing like this with competition would be banned. Because it's cheating. It destroys the whole point of competition. And every single male person, however honest they are able to be in competing regardless of all the pressures on them and the knowledge of their own best interests, has still stolen that place and opportunity from someone female .

There is no way to make this ok.

@Artichokeleaves

Yes, athletes can apply for a Therapeutic Use Exemption (e.g. for salbutamol) but the IOC guidelines allow for trans men to compete in the male category without restriction.

Janice nails it as ever thanks Errol
And Josephine March is aaaalll over the comments 💪

There is something very right had doesn't know what the left is doing about the mixed relays...

I don't think LH will strategically lose. They haven't done that to date and they are at the Olympics with a good chance of getting gold. I don't think they will purposely pass up that chance.

Yeah I don't think Hubbard has had much practice with people saying no or doing what's best for others

@Tibtom

I don't think LH will strategically lose. They haven't done that to date and they are at the Olympics with a good chance of getting gold. I don't think they will purposely pass up that chance.

Nobody works hard to make it to the Olympics and then throws it.

Hubbard won’t win because many of the other women are just better.

@Blessex

And again. We women budge up to let the men in.

Except we don’t ‘budge up’ do we, because that implies that we share the seat on an even ,if slightly squashed, basis. But that’s not enough, the expectation is that we smile sweetly, apologise, stand up, offer the seat, wipe down the bench, plump up the cushions and make sure the menz are all sitting comfortably before we scurry off to make them a cup of tea.

I agree with other posters, Hubbard is a stalking horse, they are not expected to win, they are too old ,too out of condition and not very good any way. But the cry will be “ look, a transwomen competing in a women’s event is fair after all”. And that will be the focus, not the female athletes Hubbard and their ilk push out of the sport, not the impact on young women in training for future sporting events, not the funding money and sponsorship deals young women will miss out on, not the skewed records that will be forever unattainable for natal women, not the opportunity to call yourself an Olympian that will denied to young women , no the focus will be on how it is fair, kind and inclusive for an overweight middle aged man to declare himself female ( and turn an event that is supposed to celebrate determination, effort, commitment and personal sacrifice into a sham).

It is (should be!) irrelevant as to whether Hubbbard or any other male beats a female in any sporting event. There are many reasons why a single male might be beaten by a female. Being female doesn't preclude you from performing better than any male!

This issue is whether it is fair to segregate by sex and, as this seems to be a given, what are the grounds, if any, for letting a male compete in a competition for females.

For me, as the issues that support the segregation of sporting competition by sex having nothing to do with identity, identity should not play a part. Therefore, competition should be based on natal sex.

for me, if the IOC want to be inclusive, surely any rules to permit males to compete against females must include all males - not just those that wear certain clothes or behave in certain ways, or think of themselves in certain ways.

A man promotes what is in the interests of men. Whatta shocker.

The road has been paved for athletes who have grown up training as boys, gone through male puberty, lived as men for long enough to attain peak muscle mass, and transitioned before becoming old enough to experience an age related decline in sports performance to rip through women's sporting competitions in future. And it WILL happen. Athletes and nations won't refuse to make use of a huge loophole that's entirely within the rules. And people will say, "It's fair, because we've seen that men don't always win," rather like when McKinnon/Ivy said, "It's fair for me to race girls because sometimes I don't win."

Hubbard won’t win because many of the - other women are just better.

Corrected it for you.

You’re right, my mistake. I should have said that the mediocre white middle aged wealthy privileged male won’t win because so many of the females in their female sex based class are just way better.

Hubbard has way too much ego entitlement arrogance to chuck it.

At their age and with the injury every chance may not win.

Then it'll be see no problem!

A question I've never seen asked (though I'm sure it has been) or answered is whether the IOC would support a man - who identifies as a man and makes no claim to be a woman - actively lowering his testosterone to those levels for 12 months and competing in the women's category.

If not, why not?

The IOC are making it as clear as possible that they don't care about fairness or safety for female athletes. The IOC seem to be no longer fit for purpose. They were so keen to base their policy of allowing males into female sport on the most pathetic of evidence in 2015, but won't listen to much more robust and compelling evidence in 2021, just so they can continue to discriminate against women.

@GonadTheGaul

The IOC are making it as clear as possible that they don't care about fairness or safety for female athletes. The IOC seem to be no longer fit for purpose. They were so keen to base their policy of allowing males into female sport on the most pathetic of evidence in 2015, but won't listen to much more robust and compelling evidence in 2021, just so they can continue to discriminate against women.

If you look at the speed with which Russia was readmitted into the competition (with a bit of window dressing) we might be making incorrect assumptions about how much they care about fairness.

@NoThanksAllTheSame

A question I've never seen asked (though I'm sure it has been) or answered is whether the IOC would support a man - who identifies as a man and makes no claim to be a woman - actively lowering his testosterone to those levels for 12 months and competing in the women's category.

If not, why not?

Good question 🤔

Yefimova. Banned for 16 months for steroids, and then tested positive for meldonium.

Would be good to see a permanent ban for doping offences.

The statement from the doc man the other day is clear as day.

Inclusion comes first.
The T numbers were set to let males compete without too much reduction.
The focus on the numbers is well. Meh. Other things are important. (Less tangible things).
You can't make it totally fair as some people are tall etc.
Women's max to be set higher. Men's... ???

I think things are going to get weird.

I think their focus on males is still making them fairly blind to what public opinion is, and how it's growing as more find out.

New video by The State Media:

"IS THIS A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD?"

Video description:

Season Two - Episode Four: Is This A Level Playing Field?

In this extra special SPORTS edition we take a look at the Olympic Games and their decision to include the male weightlifter Laurel Hubbard in the women's category.

Has Laurel Hubbard had full reassignment surgery? Watch this episode and find out!

(This episode might be a bit rough around the edges, as we rushed this one to get it out before Hubbard's event!)