IOC admits trans guidelines not fit for purpose

[KevinBaconsJeans]

And yet somehow twaw

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20210730143410/www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/30/ioc-admits-guidelines-for-transgender-athletes-are-not-fit-for-purpose" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20210730143410/www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/30/ioc-admits-guidelines-for-transgender-athletes-are-not-fit-for-purpose

It is not 'inclusive' to add men into women's categories as it excludes women to do so. It's a wholly inaccurate word used to disguise the reality of it.

Yes. The people who bleat on about fairness and inclusion don't give a shit about fairness and inclusion, because if they did, they'd give a shit about how unfair it is for women and how it excludes women from their own sports. They also don't care that in some sports, male inclusion puts women in danger of being seriously injured.

'Inclusion' just means 'giving males whatever they want' because no one has the spine to tell them NO.

This makes me so angry, that guy clearly doesn't give a shit about fairness in sport. Yet another man who loses nothing from all this pontificating.

@bakingdemon

But he added: “The other important thing to remember is that trans women are women. You have got to include all women if you possibly can.”

By its very nature, the Olympics cannot include all women. I am a pregnant woman who is fond of buns, totally rubbish at throwing or catching and quite weedy. I love watching it all but the Olympics cannot possibly include me.

I'm 5'2". I'll never win or even be selected for the high jump nor anything else. How is that fair?

@Blibbyblobby

The other important thing to remember is that trans women are women. You have got to include all women if you possibly can.

Genuinely, why?

From first principles, what are the defining characteristics of and differences between men and women in the mixed sex, gender identity meaning of the words that give rise to a need for separate men's and women's sports?

"Because historically they've always been split" is not a valid answer by the way, because historically men and women were single sex groups and the reason for splitting was the body differences.

But that's not the case for gender identity groups. So what aspect of gender identity also requires this split?

This is an excellent point.

An article by Debbie Hayton, saying what most of us are saying.

unherd.com/thepost/does-everyone-agrees-transgender-women-are-women/?mc_cid=952a9b1b2c&mc_eid=490404200a

the single qualifying criterion to be a transwoman is to be male

Quite.

I've never (yet) seen anyone try to argue that a transwoman is nothing more than just anyone who identifies as one.

Yup I'd love to see a female transwoman beat a male transwoman in sport. Oh hang on that will never happen, because it actually won't happen.

It won't be much better. As evidenced by "TWAW".

Strong agree that testosterone is a poor, inaccurate metric to be using. Let’s drop it and go back to having women’s sport as a protected category that excludes those in possession of a Y chromosome. There’s your sweet spot!

It was not this complicated and difficult to decide who women are when we were being excluded from sport. And I’m not talking decades ago- 2012 was the first Olympics to achieve gender parity in the sense of all events being available to women, and all competing countries sending female athletes. All seemed pretty simple till then, eh?

This saying comes to mind: "It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It"

I understand this man is protecting his position, but I hope it keeps him up at night.

Women are fully human. We're not 'non-player characters'. We're not extras in the film of a man's life. We're not support humans.

Anyone who prioritises putting people who are not female in women's sports, over the safety of and fairness to those women, tells me that they simply cannot see women as fully human. It is disgusting.

Or is it a case that the guidelines aren't fit for purpose because they still exclyde some males?

They seem to have misgendered Quinn who I think is non binary/female sex but competing on the women’s team.

“Quinn became the first openly trans woman to compete in the Olympics when playing for Canada women’s football team against Japan in Sapporo.”

@KevinBaconsJeans

This saying comes to mind: "It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It"

I understand this man is protecting his position, but I hope it keeps him up at night.

Women are fully human. We're not 'non-player characters'. We're not extras in the film of a man's life. We're not support humans.

Anyone who prioritises putting people who are not female in women's sports, over the safety of and fairness to those women, tells me that they simply cannot see women as fully human. It is disgusting.

This!

Budgett is a bit of a muppet, to put it kindly.

“It may be the right thing to do in many sports, because it is at the most elite level in their case that they are concerned about safety. As you come down from that level you can start to prioritise inclusion more than safety.”

No, safety concerns are not less at lower levels. If anything there may be more concern.

“We have spent 100 years promoting women’s sport. I think it is up to the whole international sports movement and particularly the international federations to make sure they do protect women’s sport.”

100 years? Really? I think you might want to take a history refresher course.

The other important thing to remember is that trans women are women. You have got to include all women if you possibly can.

And trans men?

I look forward to the handicap system that will allow a trans man to take Usain Bolt’s record. Got to be inclusive. Or are we going to assume that they have some indefinable ‘nice’ quality that means they will be happy to restrict hormones and compete as women?

And what assumptions are being made about non binary trans people?

Women are fully human. We're not 'non-player characters'. We're not extras in the film of a man's life. We're not support humans.

Anyone who prioritises putting people who are not female in women's sports, over the safety of and fairness to those women, tells me that they simply cannot see women as fully human.

Thanks for that summing up, hope you don't mind if I borrow it when discussing the issue with people who are being deliberately obtuse.

Women are fully human. We're not 'non-player characters'. We're not extras in the film of a man's life. We're not support humans.

Anyone who prioritises putting people who are not female in women's sports, over the safety of and fairness to those women, tells me that they simply cannot see women as fully human. It is disgusting.

Applause. This is it, exactly.

[quote andyoldlabour]An article by Debbie Hayton, saying what most of us are saying.

unherd.com/thepost/does-everyone-agrees-transgender-women-are-women/?mc_cid=952a9b1b2c&mc_eid=490404200a[/quote]
Hayton is a bit hypocritical though, happy to say this about sports but won’t amend the education trans policy they wrote even though they have been asked many times

Interesting spin: the Olympic are inclusive of everyone, so why do we need the Paralympics? Women keep being told to “just try harder”.

How do people (usually men?) like this get into such important professional positions? Do they talk easily disprovable politicised nonsense on other issues too… or just this one?

Gender identity ideology is a massive threat to women’s sports. I hope leaders in professional sports will start to stand up for women.
So proud of all of the women athletes and sportswomen doing such amazing things in Tokyo at the moment.

@ChattyLion

How do people (usually men?) like this get into such important professional positions? Do they talk easily disprovable politicised nonsense on other issues too… or just this one?

Gender identity ideology is a massive threat to women’s sports. I hope leaders in professional sports will start to stand up for women.
So proud of all of the women athletes and sportswomen doing such amazing things in Tokyo at the moment.

Middle aged men promote Middle aged men.

Was always thus.

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

men decide who women have to compete against shocker

fuck off to the far side of fuck Richard Budgett you fucking cowardly misogynist, and when you get there fuck off some more

it would be up to each sport to find the “sweet spot” between safety, fairness and inclusion

fucking 'sweet spot'

twat

This is pretty much exactly what I came on here to post.

I think our pal at the IOC has gotten cold feet over how the world will react to Hubbard on Monday.