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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans men fight back

100 replies

RoyalCorgi · 24/07/2021 14:22

Prominent trans men take on the autogynephiles.

www.gdalliancecanada.com/post/trans-men-fight-back

OP posts:
Barheim · 25/07/2021 00:43

I don't know about the rest but I thought Buck Angel counselled against gender affirmation surgery, after Buck's own life changing problems with trans medical treatment??

Oh no, gender affirmation surgery (well, rather, a hysterectomy) is the recommended treatment to prevent his medical issues.

He was just pissed that he'd never listened to trans men on his podium of thinking we should worship him for getting affirmation surgery sooner and we're unworthy clowns that were assholes for not feeding him grapes and so never heard of vaginal atrophy in the first place.

Datun · 25/07/2021 06:59

@Barheim

I don't know about the rest but I thought Buck Angel counselled against gender affirmation surgery, after Buck's own life changing problems with trans medical treatment??

Oh no, gender affirmation surgery (well, rather, a hysterectomy) is the recommended treatment to prevent his medical issues.

He was just pissed that he'd never listened to trans men on his podium of thinking we should worship him for getting affirmation surgery sooner and we're unworthy clowns that were assholes for not feeding him grapes and so never heard of vaginal atrophy in the first place.

I didn't know that. Do you have any links?
Helleofabore · 25/07/2021 08:17

He was just pissed that he'd never listened to trans men on his podium of thinking we should worship him for getting affirmation surgery sooner and we're unworthy clowns that were assholes for not feeding him grapes and so never heard of vaginal atrophy in the first place.

Can you please clarify here? Are you saying that you all told Buck about vaginal atrophy and Buck Angel didn’t listen? It is really not clear what you are trying to tell us.

LazyViper · 25/07/2021 09:07

These trans men are very courageous because the eye of Sauron will be on them soon. Hope they can stand firm against the AGP onslaught.

The fetish aspect is why women’s single sex spaces must be invaded, because the very confrontation brings a thrill.

Don’t think I’ve ever seen “uncompromising TAs are defending their own secret AGP” so boldly laid out.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 25/07/2021 09:15

Ahhhh it’s that weird thing when someone tells we think they don’t exist when they are quite clearly in existence because they're a mass occupying space & time & writing on an Internet forum

I’m not sure where the ovarian system is though, must have missed that Star Trek episode

ThomasPenman · 25/07/2021 09:20

dolor
I'm non binary with an ovarian system

I am really, genuinely curious, what does the word 'woman' mean that doesn't apply to you?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 25/07/2021 09:26

Yes! The transmen who wrote that piece and the transman who has been in my life for 30+ years, now married to a previously straight woman, do acknowledge that they are transmen. But are still gay women.

And saying that was what presumably caused a monitor to report me... at which point I was told I was not posting 'in good faith' and to behave or else.

When ideologies clash we should be able to acknowledge that and discuss it.

Mulletsaremisunderstood · 25/07/2021 10:25

[quote Bosky]Aaron Kimberley interviewed today by Benjamin Boyce.

Trans activists have doxxed Aaron and are on the attack! Angry

It is rather more than "bullying". The familiar pattern of trying to destroy a person's livelihood:

"Bullying in the Trans Community | with Aaron Kimberly"

Aaron's bio on "Gender Dysphoria Alliance Canada":

"When we were butches"
www.gdalliancecanada.com/post/when-we-were-butch[/quote]
I saw this interview with Aaron last night, it's really good. So sad that he has been threatened and harassed by transwomen who are trying to get him fired, and claims that he is a threat to LGBT youth Confused.

He also outlines very clearly the difference between homosexual transgenderism (which many young people will grow out of and become adult gay males or adult lesbians) and AGPs who are usually late transitioning males for whom it is a sexual fetish.

The AGPs are dominating the debate (no surprises there given that they are male). Also why they want no debate, because the reality of AGP requires unwitting women's participation.

So they have cloaked themselves under the umbrella of trans and claimed victimhood status. All they while they are getting off on being in our spaces and the discomfort of women and pushing boundaries. Gross.

OldCrone · 25/07/2021 11:05

@ThomasPenman

dolor I'm non binary with an ovarian system

I am really, genuinely curious, what does the word 'woman' mean that doesn't apply to you?

I hope @dolor will come back and answer this.

Answers also welcome from any other adult female humans who think the word 'woman' doesn't apply to them.

MistyGreenAndBlue · 25/07/2021 11:24

Ovarian system 🌌Grin 😂😂
I shouldn't laugh really though. Just more misogyny isnt it?
Internalised misogyny is still misogyny but I admit, this one tickled me.

Deliriumoftheendless · 25/07/2021 11:26

dolor you’re absolutely welcome to think of yourself in any way that makes you happy, but why should anyone else see you by the terms you like?( I mean, I’m a middle aged woman who feels I am basically a young Brigittte Bardot. I’m not angry that no one agrees with me. )That’s a genuine question btw, not snark.

And posters here see you as a woman not a fictional character. Stop believing social media post that tell you disagreement negates your existence. We are all well aware you are a real person 🙄

R0wantrees · 25/07/2021 11:30

What happens to those women who do not conform to sex-based stereotypes (so non-binary) and have required an oophrectomy?
Should I be describing myself as, formerly of the ovarian system?
Hmm

Kralia · 25/07/2021 11:46

I'm totally mystified by the 'you're saying I don't exist' argument, which I see often. On what planet does questioning somebody's narrative of self-identification as neither male or female imply a questioning of their existence? I mean, self-evidently you exist, what total batshittery would it be to claim otherwise?! What it actually means is 'you are questioning my self-perception'. Which is quite a different thing. Everyone has the right to their own reality, which may or may not accord with anyone else's. They do not have the right to impose it on others. I could decide I am 6 - go me!- but not to join the local year 1 class.

Bosky · 25/07/2021 11:57

Press release by Gender Dysphoria Alliance Canada and TReVoices
July 23, 2021

Gender Dysphoria Alliance Canada and TReVoices (Trans Rational Educational Voices) have been accused of being anti-LGBT hate organisations by high profile Canadian trans activist Morgane Oger.

Both organisations are run by trans men.

GDAC is an organisation that advocates for those with Gender Dysphoria, using an evidence-based understanding of our condition. We use storytelling of our lived experiences to educate about what Gender Dysphoria is, including the different types of GD, because each type has different needs. This evidence-based approach has been overshadowed in recent years by activists who wish to replace an evidence-based understanding with a cultural-political narrative. We believe that is harmful.

TReVoices is an organisation that aims to educate about the realities of medically transitioning, also grounding its activism in peer-reviewed evidence and lived experiences. Trans adults who have been through these procedures don’t believe we were adequately informed about what these procedures would be like to go through, what complications we would experience or what outcomes we could expect. TReVoices asserts that an informed consent approach is meaningless if trans people aren’t being properly informed and, given the best available evidence, asserts that these procedures should not be performed on minors.

Trans men have a unique relationship with women and children, because we are biologically female, have lived a large portion of our lives as female, and we have children of our own.

Both GDAC and TReVoices were among dozens of signatories of a recent letter by the Women’s Liberation Front (WoLF) to the United Nations. The UN had sought feedback as a part of its process to develop international policy on LGBT rights. The request made in the letter we signed was that the “Gender Theory Framework” not be used as a part of international law. This framework is not based in evidence. It’s a political, rhetorical device used by some trans activists. We believe this framework is harmful because it grossly misrepresents what Gender Dysphoria is and undermines sex-based rights. It is a political fiction, and we take exception that activist such as Morgane Oger are promoting this rhetoric on behalf of all trans people, LGB people and women, at the Provincial, Federal and International level, as though we are all in agreement with that narrative. We are not.

Because we have situated ourselves, as trans men, differently than how Morgane wishes to conceptualise the trans and LGB experience, she is resorting to slander, bullying and cancellation tactics against us. She has made threats towards GDAC’s Founder, Aaron Kimberly through social media, posting Aaron’s employer’s contact information online, and has now taken that into the real world, having gone to the media with a complaint that Aaron’s employer is somehow involved in GDAC’s “hate propaganda”.

Trans men have had to tolerate this kind of abuse and intimidation in the community for years by those like Morgane Oger. Morgane has built a political career for herself by silencing and intimidating other members of the community who wish to express their own views on matters which directly impact us.

Morgane has been directly involved in the tabling of Bill C6 and other Canadian laws which impact our lives as transgender people and the kinds of care was receive.

We would like our voices in this matter heard, and we are available to provide additional information.

Continued at: www.gdalliancecanada.com/post/press-release

(Excellent website and resources BTW!)

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/07/2021 12:02

I'm fairly sure I gave my own descriptor.

No one can opt out of biological sex, it applies to every person on earth, even really unique and special ones.

RedToothBrush · 25/07/2021 12:28

@ThomasPenman

dolor I'm non binary with an ovarian system

I am really, genuinely curious, what does the word 'woman' mean that doesn't apply to you?

It sounds like saying I'm female but trying hard not to type the word female and trying to say that sex doesn't matter except the part where your sex absoluetely does matter.

The funny thing is I bet most people on this thread will share opinions about how gender stereotypes are a pile of bollocks.

Its just that they don't pretend that no one else can see their sex and they don't try and deny that their sex is kind of relevant to how their life experiences will pan out, even if they don't wish for it to be. (For example: As in they have to make a decision about whether they wish they carry to child unless they are infertile, in which case they have to make decision about whether they wish to persue medical intervention, never have kids or persue another route to children).

It is far easier to just say I'm a woman and gender stereotypes are a bunch of bollocks!

But yep. A generation obsessed with destroying labels and non-conformity who then create a label so they can fit in with each other and conform.

Sorry its performance politics not anything revolutionary or new. It was done in the 60s and 70s in different ways. Its like how music was recycled to form identities in the 90s.

R0wantrees · 25/07/2021 12:31

Trans men have a unique relationship with women and children, because we are biologically female, have lived a large portion of our lives as female, and we have children of our own.

I'm rather confused by this statement and what this group think a woman and living as female means.

RedToothBrush · 25/07/2021 12:32

Oh and people like this definitely exist and are real. They just happen to share different opinions and views on life to me.

And don't wish to be challenged / questioned about this.

They just want us to suck it up.

Sorry, but its political not based on actual psychicality so I will treat it as something to be discussed / debated not just accepted blindly and uncritically.

RedToothBrush · 25/07/2021 12:38

Thats not to say that people don't REALLY think they are different.Its just that there could be a whole lot more going on which we should consider:

twitter.com/TwisterFilm/status/1383215358132187138

None of this stops us being female or male though. Sex still exists. Our brains might want to escape that, but it doesn't stop change that reality.

R0wantrees · 25/07/2021 12:44

Trans men have had to tolerate this kind of abuse and intimidation in the community for years by those like Morgane Oger. Morgane has built a political career for herself by silencing and intimidating other members of the community who wish to express their own views on matters which directly impact us.

I am concerned that due to placing themselves beyond women's services and consciousness raising, female members of the 'trans' community may be less likely to become aware of coercive control/ abuse patterns of behaviour.

There are a number of women who having detransitioned have identified significant incidents of male abuse, usually by older members with positions of influence. The common age and/or sex power dynamics of abuse being evident.

Denial of sex, especially with the claim that female members of the 'trans community' assume male privilege disguises potential abuse/s of power.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminism/3452784-Coercive-Control-a-need-for-better-awareness

TinselAngel · 25/07/2021 12:58

@R0wantrees

What happens to those women who do not conform to sex-based stereotypes (so non-binary) and have required an oophrectomy? Should I be describing myself as, formerly of the ovarian system? Hmm
That sounds like you've defected from your home planet to join Star Fleet.
ShortBacknSides · 25/07/2021 12:59

But but but what about all that male privilege they identified into?

Grin the patriarchy can tell who is which sex.

Deliriumoftheendless · 25/07/2021 13:04

@Theeyeballsinthesky

Ahhhh it’s that weird thing when someone tells we think they don’t exist when they are quite clearly in existence because they're a mass occupying space & time & writing on an Internet forum

I’m not sure where the ovarian system is though, must have missed that Star Trek episode

You can guarantee Kirk would set a course for there!
ohfook · 25/07/2021 13:09

Thanks for sharing. I've came across buck angel on Instagram before and found them to be a really measured voice of reason when it comes to single sex spaces.

R0wantrees · 25/07/2021 13:35

@ohfook

Thanks for sharing. I've came across buck angel on Instagram before and found them to be a really measured voice of reason when it comes to single sex spaces.
Its worth listening to Joey Brite describe how Angel influenced the lesbian communities in San Franciso and being aware of how so many women came to take testosterone. Many are unaware of the history. Brite herself came very close to following this pathway so her perspective is important. She also organised the successful online 'Can I Get a Witness?' conference last year and has been organising peaceful protests against gender clinics in North America

'Interview With Feminist Conference Organizer, Joey Brite'
by M. K. Fain
4w.pub/interview-with-feminist-conference-organizer-joey-brite/

WLRN interview

Interview with Erin Brewer (2 parts)
"Activist and producer of the "Can I Get A Witness" conference Joey Brite discusses how she initially pursued testosterone but was dissuaded by a strong and caring therapist. Joey explores the impact the trans movement has had on lesbian communities and grieves the loss of butch lesbians who are increasingly being convinced that, because they are gender non-conforming, they should engage in experimental transgender affirming treatments resulting in lesbian eugenics."

Interview with Julian Vigo
savageminds.substack.com/p/joey-brite

Uncommon Ground Media article by Joey Brite
uncommongroundmedia.com/the-four-horsemen-of-the-gender-critical-apocalypse/

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