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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

The analytical armadillo

24 replies

ohnodearme · 21/07/2021 10:27

I follow her on Facebook- she posts interesting stuff about breastfeeding, childbirth, babies and children.

She has shared the Times article about Milli Hill this morning- and is getting into trouble.
She has made no comments but there are several calls for her to condemn Milli or be labelled transphobic. Anyone questioning the use of the word "woman" is transphobic. You can imagine.

It's not enough to say "women and other birthing people " - no we must be birthing people and chest feeders.

OP posts:

NonnyMouse1337 · 21/07/2021 10:37

I think you would have to be living under a rock to not realise that posting such articles these days will lead to a torrent of abuse and pressure to 'confess' your sins in front of a zealous mob.

Looks like this woman is making a very obvious statement by sharing the article and I hope she stands her ground and doesn't cave into the pressure. I'd rather people stayed silent than post something in support of women's rights and then immediately recant and apologise the moment the mob start demanding their obedience. I understand it's a difficult situation for women in such a position due to threats to their livelihood etc but surely by now you should know what you are up against in terms of cancel culture.

As more women stand their ground, the easier it becomes for others to follow.

Shedbuilder · 21/07/2021 11:01

I think women have realised that being called transphobic by a lot of blue-haired loons is nothing to be scared of. Who wouldn't want to be standing proud in the Milli, JKR, Baroness camp?

Helleofabore · 21/07/2021 11:10

It is utterly ridiculous that people asking to use additive language are being hounded. This is purity spiralling at its finest.

You have to ask just how far the pendulum will swing, there surely cannot be much more to go before people wake up that this insisting on 'pure' language is actually harmful to the large group of trans people who don't want this level of 'purity'/scrutiny etc.

WarriorN · 21/07/2021 11:13

I'm sure she's written some GC stuff on her blog before.

Bloody fb doesn't show me much anymore; I follow her but haven't visited the page in ages.

WarriorN · 21/07/2021 11:13

There's a worrying amount of pro bf / sling attachment types who are huge TRAs. Very odd.

WarriorN · 21/07/2021 11:16

I'm sure she's written some GC stuff on her blog before.

Although now I'm doubting myself.

WarriorN · 21/07/2021 11:22

Bloody hell I didn't know doulas were trained to bully.

I may be thinking of another bf blogger; someone has mentioned Full Cream as being gc.

The comments from those supporting the TRAs are authoritarian. And bullying.

ScreamingMeMe · 21/07/2021 11:24

I've never known a rights movement like it for swarming all over people as soon as they think they have put a foot wrong. BLM and other anti-racism groups don't do this. Feminists don't. Disability rights groups (not that the woke seem to care about them all that much) don't. Utterly crackers.

Original poster

ohnodearme · 21/07/2021 11:26

She is really getting abuse now- a few supporting voices, but more "how dare you share such hate you wicked transphobe "

OP posts:

AssassinatedBeauty · 21/07/2021 11:28

Just followed her page, figuring she could do with the tiny show of support. The comments under the article are something else.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/07/2021 11:32

I've never known a rights movement like it for swarming all over people as soon as they think they have put a foot wrong

It's utterly weird. I think a lot of it is cognitive dissonance. The cracks simply cannot be allowed to show.

ScreamingMeMe · 21/07/2021 11:35

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I've never known a rights movement like it for swarming all over people as soon as they think they have put a foot wrong

It's utterly weird. I think a lot of it is cognitive dissonance. The cracks simply cannot be allowed to show.

Yes I think you're right. Shut down any different perspectives, lest people start thinking for themselves.

WarriorN · 21/07/2021 12:10

Exactly.

On that page I'm seeing women policing her ability to even share an article in the times, and lo and behold, now equating doing so as racist too.

Fair play to the armadillo; she's said that it's and article relevant to the birthing world and why can't people read it and make up their own minds?

But even that is phobic apparently.

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 21/07/2021 12:58

@WarriorN

There's a worrying amount of pro bf / sling attachment types who are huge TRAs. Very odd.

I agree, although I think there's quite an interesting perspectives on womanhood in these sub-groups even prior to / aside from the trans question. For me, I find (loosely, unlabelled) attachment parenting runs perfectly coherently alongside my feminism, but I've certainly bumped into my fair share of "women's lib has gone too far and we belong in the home not the workplace" women along the way.

It's certainly a parenting practice that appeals to anyone who applauds the subjugation of women, however they choose to manifest that.

teawamutu · 21/07/2021 21:03

She was incredibly kind and supportive when I was trying to feed a premature baby a few years ago. I hope she's feeling supported and not bullied into recanting.

unwashedanddazed · 21/07/2021 21:14

There was a link to her FB post on Twitter earlier today so I went and had a look. Those women are seriously unhinged. I'm shocked that grown adults are talking to each other in the way they do. Bullying teenagers maybe, but these are women with babies, so proper adults. I'm starting to think all this purity spiralling is causing mental illness.

Gumbomambo · 21/07/2021 21:19

Absolutely appalling. This is real hate and actual real bullying. Fucking awful I hope they are ok.

WarriorN · 22/07/2021 05:48

That's interesting Nell; I hadn't quite seen it like that.

I know some women who stopped working to be a sahm but it was more a mix of attachment parenting + rad fem and personal circ decisions. Mind you, at least 3 found they were in abusive marriages and had to escape.

Not associated to those women, There's a certain v large "off topic sling group" where some get very wound up and worried about "educating" themselves re lgbtq+ while others lecture a lot. I've also seen many be very defensive about porn. Some of the main original organisers (who I have met) are vehemently against perceived transphobia. Their opinions have become the norm amongst those young women navigating early mother hood. It's actually a parenting support group and some women have huge challenges their dealing with, for which they get a lot of advice.

I spotted a couple from that group commenting on AA's post.

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 22/07/2021 09:33

@WarriorN pretty sure I'm in that group too. (They weren't the women I was thinking of when I said there's a fair chunk of rather Sears-like idealising of the 1950s housewife in AP.) There's some great parenting advice and commiseration and support in there, and the politics is absolutely motivated by compassion, but the party line is always clear eg there was a definite right/wrong position to have on Brexit around the time of the referendum.

There's also a history of weirdly fawning over the rare male contributor...

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 22/07/2021 09:40

I went and had a look. I found the comments reasonably balanced (in that there were voices from multiple sides of the debate, some even trying to engage!) but there are people declaring they are now unfollowing AA because she has not explicitly condemned MH. Not because she's endorsed her, not even because she's refused to condemn her, but because she hasn't immediately apologised, recanted and condemned.

I imagine there is some professional anxiety here for those doulas, antenatal teachers etc who don't want their (often smaller and more precarious) business to experience the same as MH.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/07/2021 10:26

there are people declaring they are now unfollowing AA because she has not explicitly condemned MH. Not because she's endorsed her, not even because she's refused to condemn her, but because she hasn't immediately apologised, recanted and condemned.

That's how this is enforced. People are afraid.

ValancyRedfern · 22/07/2021 12:52

I remember really liking the analytical armadillo when I was going through breast feeding hell (hands down the most traumatic experience of my life, which was what actually led me to realising being a woman had nothing to do with identifying as something). I am so sorry to hear this. What is wrong with people?!?!?

TheSockMonster · 22/07/2021 13:35

@WarriorN

There's a worrying amount of pro bf / sling attachment types who are huge TRAs. Very odd.

I think movements that tend towards strongly polarised definitions of right and wrong tend to be at risk of power grabs from people who like to weaponise rules.

Manderleyagain · 22/07/2021 13:47

I thought her point was fair - it's a significant story in a national paper so she should share. Everyone needs to do this. They don't have to express an opinion on the issue, but they should share things as crate spaces to have the discussions, and fir people to learn what's going on. The whole thing would be better if that was the norm.

Full Cream is definitely gc.

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