Collective Noun

[MyIronLung46]

Hi all

I would like an opinion on something before I broach the subject IRL.

I am male, I coach a 'Girls' team in what used to be a very male orientated sport. The players are teens or pre-teen.
A couple of the players identify as non-binary, and I have been told that they prefer not to be referred to as a girl.
As a coach, I am struggling to find an appropriate name when working with the group. Normally I would say 'Girls, can you please....' I also teach mixed sex teams of younger kids, and use the term 'guys', but I am concerned that 'guys' can be seen as a male orientated name (think Guys and Dolls).

Suggestions would be appreciated....

Yes ... and personally I think it's more important it actually is a girls team (all juvenile females; only juvenile females) than that it's necessarily called a girls team.

I disagree with this. How can we stand up for girls or women when 'girl' and 'women' are forbidden words. When we allow their appropriation by an ideological belief system. By not using 'girls' in the appropriate context you are supporting the erasure of women and girls.

I certainly don't think the word 'girls' should be forbidden! But the word is secondary to the reality. I don't suppose Girl Guides leaders have any qualms about using the word 'girls'. They might even be chastised if they avoided it if their group became mixed sex.

Perhaps one approach is (as with the bloody awful 'menstruator' and 'birthing people' situations) to aim for phrases like 'ok, listen up girls, everyone' ... but really not make a big issue of it either way.

I’m wondering if the formation of another team (not necessarily in this specific instance) for non-binaries of both sexes, might lead them to understand how having separate things for women and girls, is instrumental in helping women and girls succeed, or even just to participate, in things

Do you think the boys team have the same issue? If not, why not?

@Tibtom

Do you think the boys team have the same issue? If not, why not?

Good point I think if you want to use collective terms that aren't going to rub anyone up the wrong way, there are a variety of neutral ones you can use. Everyone, people, kids, etc. But it's still a girls team. I would still use girls some of the time. (Because I would forget..) Personally I really bristle at 'guys' for me it's definitely male default and not at all neutral.

@Tibtom

Do you think the boys team have the same issue? If not, why not?

Probably not, because boys who didn't 'feel like boys' would try to muscle into the girls' team (regardless of what it gets called) if they wanted to do sports.

@EyesOpening

I’m wondering if the formation of another team (not necessarily in this specific instance) for non-binaries of both sexes, might lead them to understand how having separate things for women and girls, is instrumental in helping women and girls succeed, or even just to participate, in things

I wouldn't have thought there would be enough in most cases.

For some sports, an extra mixed team open to both sexes and any 'identity' may be a good addition. But one just for 'non binaries'... that just reinforces the false idea that 'gender' has anything whatever to do with what team you should be in.

I don't really like the gender-neutral use of "guys" (though I know a lot of people have no problem with it) but it's interesting how feminist criticism of generic "guys" had no effect - it was only when TRAs started opposing the use of the term "guys" that people started to take notice. So for example in the Atlantic www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/08/guys-gender-neutral/568231/ we read that "I heard from several people who said that the word is particularly troubling for trans and gender-nonconforming people". The Atlantic goes on to note that women may also dislike "guys" and that "people have been resisting the term for decades". So why is the term "guys" seen as particularly troubling for trans women? I would guess that there are two reasons - (1) if natal women are called guys, they might not appreciate it but they know they're not actually been mistaken for men or told that they're men, a possibility that trans women are hypersensitive about; (2) society cares more about the opinions of natal males (such as trans women) than those of women.

At work I have been known to use:

Team
Youse lot/You lot
Ya rabble
Oi/ho (no, not in that way)
People
Collies (rather than colleagues)
Comrades
Darlings/dahlings

I would just use 'team'.

Well done team!
Nice work team!
Keep going team!

Etc.

@SmugglersHaunt

How about ‘girls and the self-obsessed’? Although it could become onerous quite quickly