Collective Noun

[MyIronLung46]

Hi all

I would like an opinion on something before I broach the subject IRL.

I am male, I coach a 'Girls' team in what used to be a very male orientated sport. The players are teens or pre-teen.
A couple of the players identify as non-binary, and I have been told that they prefer not to be referred to as a girl.
As a coach, I am struggling to find an appropriate name when working with the group. Normally I would say 'Girls, can you please....' I also teach mixed sex teams of younger kids, and use the term 'guys', but I am concerned that 'guys' can be seen as a male orientated name (think Guys and Dolls).

Suggestions would be appreciated....

I don’t understand why they’re staying in the team if they no longer consider themselves girls.

^^ This. They want to participate in the girls team because they are girls or identify as girls or because they prefer to be with the girls than the boys. Yet they won't like to be collectively referred to as girls. Does that mean the team name has to be changed too?

Its a girls team, why would anyone be offended at being called a girl? If you dont want to be called a girl then surely you wouldn't join a girls team? It doesn't make sense.

www.transgendertrend.com/girl-international-womens-day-2021/

On International Women’s Day 2021 we celebrate the word ‘girl’. We are watching as the word ‘woman’ is being erased and replaced with the more ‘inclusive’ spelling ‘womxn’, the gender neutral ‘person’ or demeaning and dehumanising terms such as ‘uterus haver’ or ‘menstruator.’ We don’t want to see the same happen to the word girl.

‘Girl’ means a female child from birth to adulthood. That’s it, that’s the dictionary definition. Nothing subjective, nothing about personality or an inner feeling, just the simple fact of your biological sex. A girl, by definition, is female. Girls need to know that more than ever today when they are being told that some girls have a penis and that they themselves might really be boys if their behaviour and interests stray too far outside the pink girl box.

“Girl” is not a subjective idea, it is a fact and it means “young female.” To give girls the idea that it means anything else restricts ALL girls in their idea of themselves as people.

Girl means a female child from birth to adulthood. Girlhood doesn’t last long so while you’re there, girls, claim your word, own it, make it yours. Don’t let anyone make you feel ashamed of using it for whatever reason.

To girls everywhere: the word ‘girl’ belongs to you, it is a wonderful word; embrace it, celebrate it, use it with pride and shout it out loud.

@EyesOpening

I don’t understand why they’re staying in the team if they no longer consider themselves girls.

Well, this.

'Non-binary' is a term that depends on other people adhering to sexist stereotypes in order for it to have any sort of meaning. Personally, I wouldn't indulge in that sort of nonsense at all. By going along with it, what message are you sending out to all the other girls on the team?

I expect all the non-binary kids on your team are the female sort of non-binary kids, in which case they are girls.

I would explain that the term “Girls” is a sex-based term and refers to young female human beings and that it doesn’t negate any ‘identity’. I’d also give a very brief explanation of women in sport - issues we’ve had, firsts, etc.

I wouldn’t indulge gender ideology, not because I think it’s regressive nonsense but because I believe it’s harmful, particularly to girls.

I think the suggestion of the whole team discussion is a really, really good one. Most of what has been happening has been by stealth and an open discussion will help all the girls see how important it is to talk about this. Those who are non-binary will also learn that there is a discussion to be had, Let them be grown ups about this one and you might be pleasantly surprised.

@EishetChayil

Tell them not to be so bloody daft.

Well that or Players, Team... You lot Ya scunners (as my old history teacher used to call us)

But as the team is based in sex, girls should be fine. Who is in charge - the coach or the kids?

In my day the coaches were God. You did as told.

@Hopeishere52

You mentioned that this is a sport that has tended to be male dominated , therefore it is really important to keep with your original intention of having a Girls team, you could explain to the group of why the team was set up for specifically girls and why it is so important for encouraging females to play, as others have suggested. You mentioned that you also run a mixed team, could you offer that as a choice for those players who don’t identify as girls.

Perfect. Yes.

Don't let the word girls be erased for a minority of people who don't understand how bloody hard women and girls fought for the ability to actually do these things.

At school we didn't have the option of football. Girls did netball. We made a big fuss and got the school to change policy so every one had the choice.

I fucking hate football btw. I suffered it so other girls could have the option!!!

I guess there are two aspects to me

Firstly having a girls/female team is of value , increasing participation and as they get older they will benefit from sex divided categories, as it is sex not gender that is relevant for sport capability

Lots of sports were not "men's xxx" they were just xxx but only men by default. We don't want to go back to that

Then I daily use , you should avoid using sex terms when not needed. It reinforces the differences between males and females and can lead to girls underperforming

So everyone , all

You mentioned that you also run a mixed team, could you offer that as a choice for those players who don’t identify as girls.

I think the OP said that was for younger kids.
And surely any suggestion these girls - who are hopefully only temporarily playing with 'identity' - should be made to feel unwelcome in the girls' team is a very bad one. It might be a bridge burning moment, and reinforce their daft idea that there's actually anything different about them.

The point about 'why are they in the girls team then' is surely that actually, they know fine well they're girls, that they're female - and that's a good thing.

I think the OP should think through what to say if the matter arises naturally, but in general maybe best avoid making the naming into a big issue. Use neutral terms more but try not to look mortified or apologetic if you accidentally say 'girls'. Talking about the history of the sport (and maybe other sexist sports) and how important it is there aren't just men's and boys teams would be good, and not directed at anyone in particular. Ironically, I assume these NB people won't overly mind references to 'men and boys 'as - mercifully - they don't identify as boys.

Agree with others

Team

Team name

Everyone

Not guys, I don’t make a fuss about it but it is male by default

Tell them not to be so bloody daft.

Well, kind of this really... But what term would you use if it were a mixed team? Unless they're in single sex schools, teachers have to do this all the time and either say 'Year 7' etc or everyone/you lot/guys/folks/people or children if it's for little ones. Of course... you don't actually need to use a noun there at all.

It’s nice of you to care about this, OP. I would stick with girls as it is the Girls team.

Agree that guys is male. These two guys who walked into the pub are always a couple of blokes.

I assume that as they are of the non binary identfiying age they sre adolescents so actually uaing something like team when addressing the whole group. And use their names when addressing one or two of them? Do not use guys as it ie not a neutral term allthough pretends to be. I also find folks cringey as associate it with 'fairy folk'.

Plus it gives the message that a whole group can be dictated to (or ‘be kind’ in modern parlance) by a small minority (who very well - the odds are - may change their minds. And if you get it wrong, then what - the class gets derailed by a lecture/tantrum/strop? If they want to discuss gender politics then ‘take it outside’.

It’s not like one child is profoundly deaf so her teammates learn basic sign language to make her feel more of a part of the team.

'Small Humans,' my old science teacher used to call us. I quite liked it.

You should decide and stick to what you decide. You are the coach, the leader. Therefore they need to see authority from you. I would probably go with "everyone" myself. But I wouldn't ask them. I think it would make them feel even more insecure than they are already. We need grownups in this culture.

DH is in the same position.

The girls haven't gone public yet, they've only told their friends.

My plan is to say that its a girls team and they can leave if they're not girls. There are plenty of boys teams.

If you don't want to face it tho, (and I don't blame you - these are hugely sensitive times - eye-roll ) yeah, I'd call them the team name or team colours.

My plan is to say that its a girls team and they can leave if they're not girls. There are plenty of boys teams.

They are girls. I think that's a seriously bad idea, reinforcing their unrealistic notions and pushing them towards irreversible damaging 'treatments'. It's a girls' team so surely it should be open to all 'juvenile human females', regardless of what they want to label themselves. It's not a 'single gender' team. The boys' team is for juvenile males, not young females. It may be physically unsafe for 'NB' females or 'trans boys' as puberty progresses.

If you go down that route then you also weaken the position re allowing 'transgirls' to join the girls' team.

‘Hi Guys’ in a singsong voice seems to be the preferred greeting by girls round here.

Guys is fine.

I hate football too!

Thanks for all the replies, a lot to take in...