Page 3 | Collective Noun

MyIronLung46 · 2021-07-19T22:23:15+00:00

Hi all I would like an opinion on something before I broach the subject IRL. I am male, I coach a 'Girls' team in what used to be a very male orientated sport. The players are teens or pre-teen. A couple of the players identify as non-binary, and I have been told that they prefer not to be referred to as a girl. As a coach, I am struggling to find an appropriate name when working with the group. Normally I would say 'Girls, can you please....' I also teach mixed sex teams of younger kids, and use the term 'guys', but I am concerned that 'guys' can be seen as a male orientated name (think Guys and Dolls). Suggestions would be appreciated....

Hopeishere52 · 20/07/2021 11:48

Reading the comments, I agree that all of the girls should feel welcome in the group and that seems to be what the OP wants too.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 20/07/2021 12:02

@JoodyBlue

You should decide and stick to what you decide. You are the coach, the leader. Therefore they need to see authority from you. I would probably go with "everyone" myself. But I wouldn't ask them. I think it would make them feel even more insecure than they are already. We need grownups in this culture.

THIS

We're in this mess because adults have stood back and allowed children with zero understanding of nuance, discrimination and bullying to dominate the discourse about human rights - resulting in women being stripped of our identity, language and rights.

Make a considered decision and use it - but don't allow them to argue the toss - some of them will dominate, derail and bully others into acquiescence - and another place where girls can be girls will be lost. In this case - #nodebate

Original poster

MyIronLung46 · 20/07/2021 12:30

@Hopeishere52

Reading the comments, I agree that all of the girls should feel welcome in the group and that seems to be what the OP wants too.

Absolutely. All girls are welcome to join regardless of size, shape, race, ability etc... fully inclusive and diverse. It has built confidence in alot of them on and off the pitch.

I want a culture where they feel appreciated and listened too. But also want them to be driven to succeed. Success is not measured in being better than anyone else, but being better than they were yesterday. Its a tough sport, and it takes guts to get stuck in, the journey a lot of them have made over the last 6 months has been amazing. They have formed a team themselves, a proper community of people who didn't know each other 6 months ago, and no share wins and losses, and all the emotions that go with that, together.

We use statements like #thisgirlcan and i wear a 'Strong Girls Club' t-shirt with pride. I am acutely aware that by not acknowledging that they ARE girls can put march to equality on the back foot...

Again, thanks for all your comments. Its just seems there is no right or wrong at this moment!

OP posts:

Helmetbymidnight · 20/07/2021 17:20

I think that's a seriously bad idea,

You're right of course.
The whole thing just pisses me off - the girls are such lovely, lively and normal girls and they are coming out with this bullshit. I just want to wake them up - its not my place too tho, obvs, and anyway, as DH always says to me, 'don't get involved'.

EyesOpening · 20/07/2021 18:21

@Hopeishere52

Reading the comments, I agree that all of the girls should feel welcome in the group and that seems to be what the OP wants too.

I'm not saying that any female person should be made to not feel welcome but I feel there's going to come a situation where something is going to have to give, will it be the fact that it's called/referred to as a "girl's" team? I feel like those who don't consider themselves girls anymore are like young adults saying they want to be independent yet still want their parents to keep them or do their washing, or someone who says they don't want to be in a relationship with someone anymore but still want to see them and they can't see other people. You don't want the label of something, yet you still want the things that label "is"

ArabellaScott · 20/07/2021 19:03

Yes, it is odd that if you can't handle being called a girl you'd join a team explicitly called a girls' team, surely?

OldChinaJug · 20/07/2021 19:25

I would examine that, as it is a girls' team, everyone will be referred to as 'girls'. If she does not consider herself.to eh a girl, she can find an appropriate alternative.

The other girls have the right to be recognised as, celebrated and called 'girls'!

Barracker · 20/07/2021 19:42

If it's a girls' team, then there's a lot to be said for leading the ethos of it being 'for girls who are not ashamed of being the brilliant girls they are'

If a girl is ashamed or embarrassed to be a girl, or holds negative connotations with being a girl, or assumes the other girls 'identify' with... whatever else negative she doesn't want to associate with, the very last thing I would do as an adult is to accommodate those harmful ideas or lend them validity.

You don't mutate a positive girls' team into something else to accommodate a child who is clinging to damaging ideas of girlhood.
You don't mould the positive girls' team to suit the child's negative ideas. You mould the negative ideas instead.

The team is for girls. The child who is a girl (but doesn't want to be) is welcome, but the terms of entry are that everyone on it is a girl who accepts this is a girls' team.

SmugglersHaunt · 20/07/2021 19:48

How about ‘girls and the self-obsessed’? Although it could become onerous quite quickly

therocinante · 20/07/2021 20:29

@SmugglersHaunt

How about ‘girls and the self-obsessed’? Although it could become onerous quite quickly

How droll. Making up hilarious little scenarios on the internet where an adult calls a child self-obsessed for something that feels as important to them as their identity is quite something...

OP is trying to do right by the children he coaches in his limited capacity as their coach in a way that doesn't disadvantage the group as a whole (unless you would be offended to be referred to as 'everybody' while in a group and insist on all groups of women ONLY being greeted with "hello, women!" at all times, in which case shine on you crazy diamond) and you're using some kids you don't know to score imaginary points. Good job.

MidnightSilence · 20/07/2021 21:03

@Barracker

If it's a girls' team, then there's a lot to be said for leading the ethos of it being 'for girls who are not ashamed of being the brilliant girls they are'

If a girl is ashamed or embarrassed to be a girl, or holds negative connotations with being a girl, or assumes the other girls 'identify' with... whatever else negative she doesn't want to associate with, the very last thing I would do as an adult is to accommodate those harmful ideas or lend them validity.

You don't mutate a positive girls' team into something else to accommodate a child who is clinging to damaging ideas of girlhood.
You don't mould the positive girls' team to suit the child's negative ideas. You mould the negative ideas instead.

The team is for girls. The child who is a girl (but doesn't want to be) is welcome, but the terms of entry are that everyone on it is a girl who accepts this is a girls' team.

Quite.

Wildgarlicpesto · 20/07/2021 21:17

How droll. Making up hilarious little scenarios on the internet where an adult calls a child self-obsessed for something that feels as important to them as their identity is quite something...

How droll that something as self obsessed as current identity labels has to mean that girls can't be mentioned any more lest the sex denialists are offended.

ErrolTheDragon · 20/07/2021 22:47

The team is for girls. The child who is a girl (but doesn't want to be) is welcome, but the terms of entry are that everyone on it is a girl who accepts this is a girls' team.

Yes ... and personally I think it's more important it actually is a girls team (all juvenile females; only juvenile females) than that it's necessarily called a girls team. I mean, it should be possible to do both but if push comes to shove, the reality matters more than the label (cf 'girl' guides. )

titchy · 20/07/2021 22:55

Menstruators and pre-menstruators?

FemaleAndLearning · 20/07/2021 23:01

It is a girl's team. Call them girls. It isn't your job to validate and act as a therapist to those girls who believe they are non-binary. I imagine you are getting extra funding based on it being a girl's team.

NiceGerbil · 21/07/2021 02:18

I personally don't like the whole come on girls hello ladies type stuff.

I'd far rather be called eg team.

Just my opinion.

NiceGerbil · 21/07/2021 02:20

I suppose for me I wanted to be treated as a person first from when I was little.

Not my sex first.

That's why I'm a feminist :)

That's just me obv.

MidnightSilence · 21/07/2021 07:11

@NiceGerbil

I suppose for me I wanted to be treated as a person first from when I was little.

Not my sex first.

That's why I'm a feminist :)

That's just me obv.

I agree with this but I don't think the impetus for change should he a girl who isn't sure she wants to be seen like 'other girls' and so everyone should be called something different or that the pretence is she isn't really a girl.

Funnylittlefloozie · 21/07/2021 07:26

If you're not a girl, why join a girls' team?

midgemagneto · 21/07/2021 07:55

@Funnylittlefloozie

If you're not a girl, why join a girls' team?

Which is why it's best to keep this low key

Let them grow up and work things out

It is a girls team but inside it they don't need constant reminders of their sex , it serves no purpose

Highlight /use /adjust: discrimination on sex when needed and ignore it everywhere else , just like any other protected characteristic

Original poster

MyIronLung46 · 21/07/2021 09:33

@FemaleAndLearning

It is a girl's team. Call them girls. It isn't your job to validate and act as a therapist to those girls who believe they are non-binary. I imagine you are getting extra funding based on it being a girl's team.

Hi FemaleandLearning

No funding, all completely voluntary....

OP posts:

Original poster

MyIronLung46 · 21/07/2021 09:38

@Funnylittlefloozie

If you're not a girl, why join a girls' team?

Fair point, but they cannot join the boys team either.

OP posts:

FemaleAndLearning · 21/07/2021 09:49

Transgender Trend have written about supporting trans identified pupils. Maybe this can help. You can download for free.
www.transgendertrend.com/schools-resources/

Tibtom · 21/07/2021 09:59

@Barracker

If it's a girls' team, then there's a lot to be said for leading the ethos of it being 'for girls who are not ashamed of being the brilliant girls they are'

If a girl is ashamed or embarrassed to be a girl, or holds negative connotations with being a girl, or assumes the other girls 'identify' with... whatever else negative she doesn't want to associate with, the very last thing I would do as an adult is to accommodate those harmful ideas or lend them validity.

You don't mutate a positive girls' team into something else to accommodate a child who is clinging to damaging ideas of girlhood.
You don't mould the positive girls' team to suit the child's negative ideas. You mould the negative ideas instead.

The team is for girls. The child who is a girl (but doesn't want to be) is welcome, but the terms of entry are that everyone on it is a girl who accepts this is a girls' team.

This. Girls should not be made to feel bad that they are girls, however they identify. Also what is the next step? Not calling it a girls team? Then accepting anyone onto the team? And lo and behold no more girls sport.

Call them girls.

JoodyBlue · 21/07/2021 10:05

I do think there is a point to be made about not using the collective noun "girls". It starts to give the impression to vulnerable youth that "girls" is a word to be avoided, not valued, not quite right. It takes me back to 80s growing up. Girls were less than.. I do seriously think adults working with young people have a responsibility not just to thoughtlessly fall in with this cultural change. The girls who might want to be girls are looking to you for a steer. Not just you OP but any of us who work with young people.