crowdfunding for mastectomies

[howard97A]

I recently read a post that said there were 35,000 current crowdfunders for mastectomies.

I can't now find the post, and i can't find a source that quotes that figure.

Can anyone direct me to the post, or to a source?

It was deleted iirc (or edited?) because of a number of us had contacted MNHQ with concerns about the inaccuracies.

I am in the middle of reading Abigail Sheir's book and it is a figure quoted in there but is a US figure not UK.

Photos showing quote and reference from Irreversible Damage book.

@AfternoonToffee

Photos showing quote and reference from Irreversible Damage book.

iirc it was removed because it implied it was in a UK context and seemed to be based on some misattributions to recent speakers and webinars.

Does Shrier's book mention the alleged figures anywhere and who (if anyone) verified the data?

A quick search on uk Gofundme gives 13261 for topsurgery

Don't know the area this covers, but even if it includes the US, that's a hell of a number of ruined bodies

Does Shrier's book mention the alleged figures anywhere and who (if anyone) verified the data?

Yes the book does mention figures, though simply as over thirty thousand. I do not know if anyone has independently verified the figures, I have simply given the context of how they are in the book. My post above clearly stated it was US figures, not UK.

Here.

It's also quoted in a Glinner update from June 28th. He talkef about it on you-tube later too (I think) and clarified it slightly in terms of location and numbers and platform, but I don't know what date.

Correction - June 24th.

@Turned

Correction - June 24th.

We followed it through all the various errors in the original thread and there's no validation of those numbers in the UK (as PPs on this thread confirm).

As per the previous thread, even in the US, it's not clear whether "top surgery" means implants for some or double mastectomies for others (depending on the nature of the transition or if somebody is moving to NB status).

This all feels like a repeat of the errors - which is why the first thread was removed/edited (whichever it was).

@oldwomanwhoruns

A quick search on uk Gofundme gives 13261 for topsurgery

Don't know the area this covers, but even if it includes the US, that's a hell of a number of ruined bodies

Their bodies are not your body; calling someone else's body ruined by your personal standards is incredibly rude and inappropriate.

People have autonomy over their own bodies and no-one else should be concerning themselves with anyone else's. Specially a bunch of strangers to you.

Let them be.

Search for top surgery

Nearly all of those young women wanting funding for mastectomies are under the age of 25.

The human brain doesn't fully develop until 25.

It's an absolute criminal tragedy that surgeons are exploiting these young women.

My thanks to everyone for this very useful information.

I've just had a scout around uk.gofundme, and I can't work out how to exclude the American crowdfunders raising money for elective mastectomies.

So some charity collection sites and doctors/surgeons are making £££££.

There does seem to be some controversy about these statistics, with some factions on this thread unwilling acknowledge a large number of young women raising funds for this surgery.

Why? What is the problem even if its 50,000, 100,000, 1,000,000 young women are having this surgery if its lifesaving? If the treatment works and is essential then why does it matter how many people are raising money for it?

If there is controversy around the actual figures, why not commission some official, peer reviewed research? In fact, there are a lot of researchers who would like to do research in this area, why not fund definitive research so that we can all see exactly how effective this treatment is and how many people want it?

Wouldn't that be a great way forward....?

You're right! Why aren't there more investigations into this phenomenon?

Because it's a brave researcher who risks the wrath of the trans lobby. One link to being transphobic and your career can end. Funding gone. Name smeared. Done.

Would you like to risk it?

Please, just go on some detrans forums and read the stories. There are so, so many people regretting surgery and they're too afraid to even talk about it because of the level of antagonism towards detransitioners. They drop out of the stats, their voices have been silenced.

If a million girls and women who identify as men cut off their breasts, are you happy with even 5%, 50,000, deeply regretting it? Is that an acceptable level of suffering?

This is the day after the report of a trans man choosing euthanasia over living with the body that they had been ‘created’ by doctors and surgeons. A youngish person - 40s I believe. The stats they quoted was 30% suicide rate post surgery. God it was a depressing read.

What is the problem even if its 50,000, 100,000, 1,000,000 young women are having this surgery if its lifesaving?

Threatening suicide if you don't get what you want is the tactic of an abuser.

Ahhhh, apologies, if the tone of my post was not clear but that is exactly my point.

No one wants to research it because they are afraid for their jobs and careers.

And of course, if it was genuinely lifesaving and beneficial then no one would be casting doubt on the figures quoted, would they. In fact, if it was a wonderful progressive treatment that worked, the more the better, yes?

So why so disparaging of the figures?

I’m not sure what you’re getting at, @rabbitwoman.

I haven’t seen anyone on this thread ‘unwilling to acknowledge a large number of young women raising funds for this surgery’, or being ‘disparaging of the figures’. Posters have simply pointed out the difficulty of arriving at reliable figures.

You seem to be suggesting that we shouldn’t be worrying about the incidence of elective mastectomies until there has been a long-term study of the medical implications. Surely that would take decades?

Maybe we are all misunderstanding each other.....

EmbarrassingAdmissions said
'We followed it through all the various errors in the original thread and there's no validation of those numbers in the UK (as PPs on this thread confirm).'

Seemingly to deny that there are as many girls raising money for 'top surgery' as is, bring claimed. Is that correct?

And then similar doubt on the figures Shrier has cited in her book.

Myself, I am really alarmed at how many young women appear to be raising funds for this operation. It indicates that it is at epidemic proportions, backing up claims that this is a social contagion with dangerous consequences.

Firstly, it seems that the people questioning the figures and asking for proof of the figures quoted are trying to imply that there is no proof that this is a dangerous epidemic?

But secondly, if this was a progressive step essential to the well being and sanity of a huge cohort of young girls, wouldn't it be a good thing? Wouldn't these figures actually show how successful the treatment was, in fact, wouldn't inflated figures be beneficial to those trying to advocate for it? So why question it? Why try to disprove what shrier et al have said?

People have autonomy over their own bodies and no-one else should be concerning themselves with anyone else's. Specially a bunch of strangers to you.

Do you think the same about the suicide ideation that trans people experience @SisterMonicaJoansHabit ?

@rabbitwoman

Maybe we are all misunderstanding each other.....

EmbarrassingAdmissions said
'We followed it through all the various errors in the original thread and there's no validation of those numbers in the UK (as PPs on this thread confirm).'

Seemingly to deny that there are as many girls raising money for 'top surgery' as is, bring claimed. Is that correct?

And then similar doubt on the figures Shrier has cited in her book.

Myself, I am really alarmed at how many young women appear to be raising funds for this operation. It indicates that it is at epidemic proportions, backing up claims that this is a social contagion with dangerous consequences.

Firstly, it seems that the people questioning the figures and asking for proof of the figures quoted are trying to imply that there is no proof that this is a dangerous epidemic?

But secondly, if this was a progressive step essential to the well being and sanity of a huge cohort of young girls, wouldn't it be a good thing? Wouldn't these figures actually show how successful the treatment was, in fact, wouldn't inflated figures be beneficial to those trying to advocate for it? So why question it? Why try to disprove what shrier et al have said?

Yes, we are misunderstanding each other.

I think that those questioning the figures are simply saying they’re unreliable, not that they’re too high or that they’ve been exaggerated. They’re not trying to minimize the problem. They just want accuracy.

Like you, ‘I am really alarmed at how many young women appear to be raising funds for this operation. It indicates that it is at epidemic proportions, backing up claims that this is a social contagion with dangerous consequences’