Is it easy to spot a misogynist?

[upthefrogs]

I posted a thread yesterday about somebody who I believe has outed himself as a misogynist. That thread got pulled as it was too close to the bone perhaps. But this got me thinking. That person claims that nobody who meets him would think he was a misogynist. Thing is, I did. I think it’s sometimes quite easy to spot the worst misogynists, they give themselves away in the way they treat you. Not always, of course, as sometimes this is subtle. But often. Mentioning no names because this thread is not about any individual, what do you think?

Vertical, it was chosen because he's a vocal man and the women's network had no backbone whatsoever.

@HeyDugeesCakeBadge

Vertical, it was chosen because he's a vocal man and the women's network had no backbone whatsoever.

Ah ok, I wasn't sure if the company had chosen it or not.

Thought this might be of use - Dr Jess Taylor:

victimfocusblog.com/2020/04/10/20-signs-your-boyfriend-or-husband-is-a-misogynist/

Another thought. Posters have talked about it being significant how these men treat women they don't want to shag, as opposed to the ones they do. Implying ignoring/nasty or charming. Whilst IME there is an obvious difference, I think it's actually more complicated than that. I had been present too often when my thinner, blonder sister was the focus of attention for that reason, and I was just completely ignored. On one memorable occasion when I was actually being introduced to the twat. But I was once on a course with a very beautiful woman, and an 'apparently throwaway' remark was directed at her by one of these knuckledraggers, of 'you might be really pretty, but you're a bit thick'. She wasn't, and if she was, it was no one's business. I pulled him on it. She later came to me to say thanks, and it turned out it wasn't the first time this had happened. So, turns out, even if they want to shag you, they'll still find a way to put you down. I made a blog post about it at the same time that Mary Beard was having similar online shit thrown her way.

women's misogyny to our own sex is a powerful and destructive source of reputational harm and ostracism
Absolutely. To my mum, all women (me included) are the competition (for what I don't know) and must be put in our place. Any achievement is diminished for having been achieved by a woman. It's such an unhealthy and confidence-sapping environment to grow up in.

Yes to the different types of misogyny. There's the obvious ones but the most psychologically and I think socially most dangerous ones are the wolves in sheep's clothing. The ones who seem oh so reasonable and allied but will chuck women under a bus for their fellow men.

My friends ex husband is high up in the tech industry, retired on a massive bonus and now styles himself as a tsar championing women in IT, he's had several newspapers articles written about him.
The same man who left his wife (following an affair) with 3 small children and basically left her to do all the hard graft of child rearing, he being too important to pick them up from school or take time off if they were sick. Her career never really recovered.

And now he thinks he is the person to help more women get into the tech industry 🙄

Over 20 years ago a chap I was chatting with said to me “scratch a male feminist and you’ll find a misogynist”.

Not wrong.

My husband loves women, he says, that's why he had a thirty year close friendship with a woman who wasn't me and who he had never mentioned, so secret really. He thinks I should get over it...
He's always corrected me, mansplained, could never accept that I might know more than him about anything, is childishly competitive (I saw it first!). It's particularly bad when we're remembering a past event- my version is always wrong if it differs from his. Yet he denies that he'd ever done any of that and certainly would not call himself a misogynist..... Sorry, probably this is just me getting things off my chest :D

I think a man can love women, but that doesn't equate to seeing them as an equal.

I believe children aren't born with sexism, let alone misogyny.
If that is true, then within a few years a boy (and a girl) are influenced to such an extent that sexism starts to set in, and perhaps not so many years later, misogyny follows.

If my assumption that this influence comes from adults, or older siblings, we can never break the cycle unless we address the adults which seems such an uphill task OR we have to find a way to protect children from that influence, so that they grow up without such damaging attitudes.

Whilst there are some adults who will teach children 'boys don't cry' and 'girls like dolls', I can't help but feel there are a million and one far more subtle cues influencing children - sport, advertising, literature, tv, music, fashion and more that subliminally set the scene for female inferiority, or sexualisation. It can feel almost insurmountable.

Is this a normal feeling, or do people have a lot more optimism?

"He stands over me when I teach and always makes me sit down when I am in his class (I'm not pregnant, it's a power play)"

Is this misogyny though?

Watch late night hosts, they always want to sit after their guests, and when the guest is someone like them, it turns into a "who is gonna sit down last" game. Maybe it is not quite the same, a powerplay for sure but necessarily misogynistic?

Yes, I'm in my thirties and he calls me young lady in front of the children.
He also makes sure it's a child size chair he sits me in. All very important when you are trying to establish behaviour in a class of 30 children.
Plenty of other incidents but, yes I am sure.

Just to check here...

are people commonly interpreting misogyny as 'hatred of women' versus sexism as 'a prejudice based on sex', in this case women?

I do know what you mean, this guy exhibits everyday sexism. But the way he treats his wife tells me he really doesn't like women very much. Is there a word for sexism that extends into loathing and resentment? That's it.

Yes, there's a need for a word somewhere between the two.
Hatred is a pretty strong word for me, but there's plenty of disdain / contempt around.

I'm just remembering Germaine Greer saying something like most women have no idea just how much men hate us (paraphrasing). I think I can identify the difference between a bit of chauvinism, and full on misogyny. Sometimes the way they react to being challenged on the first, shows you they're full on misogynists.

I just read www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/female-twitch-streamers-sexual-harassment_n_60e8ab3ee4b06dfc5e215f54?ri18n=true this and then came onto MM and found this thread. That Germaine Greer quote resonates with me more and more.

Any man who identifies themselves as a feminist is suspect IMO. If they really got it they wouldn’t say that. They’d just be an ally without making it all about them.

The highlights of that article

’Female streamers who spoke to HuffPost said they wish they’d known before joining Twitch that they were also signing up for a torrent of endless, dehumanizing harassment with little to no recourse. After futile attempts to get abusive subreddits and other similar channels taken down, some have turned to cybersecurity firms offering content removal assistance — a service that can cost tens of thousands of dollars per year.’

’The countless hours streamers spend on camera also make women in particular prime targets for deepfake porn videos,’

*“Simply having a vagina means you will be viciously, incessantly sexually harassed as a streamer on Twitch,” said an American streamer who is also the focus of a subreddit and other channels similar to those targeting Anita and Blaire. She asked not to be named or described in potentially identifying detail, so as not to draw more attention to these pages.

“No matter how original or clever or brilliant your content is, you’ll never escape the crowd who wants to strip you of your worth and diminish you to a pair of tits and ass,” the woman said. “It doesn’t matter if you dress like a nun, men on Twitch will find a way to sexualize you and they won’t stop. It almost feels like it’s a sport to them — like they do it because you don’t want them to. There’s so much free porn out there from women who feel comfortable being seen in that way, yet here we are.’*