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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ben Cohen in the Times

127 replies

Igneococcus · 09/07/2021 05:55

"Westminster used to agree on LGBT+ rights. What happened?" he asks. I'm sure the comments will tell him and he won't listen:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6c7b9c5a-e003-11eb-bac0-9597568b601f?shareToken=f472d35266ed238f4f8f181715bda78e

OP posts:
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7
Datun · 09/07/2021 14:39

It's almost fascinating. The idea that certain cohort wanted something so badly, that they just thought people would fall in line. They only had recourse to spurious arguments like suicide statistics, and oppressed minority nonsense, followed swiftly by well I'm not talking about it then, no debate.

And that's twice now that Ben has been expected to come up with something concrete and he can't.

Surely he must wonder why no one is persuaded by his argument. Or lack of one.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 09/07/2021 14:40

Well done for sending more traffic to the Radicalisation Portal though Grin

Ben doesn't seem to understand that most people outside of MN don't believe in gender ideology either and don't like being actively coerced into denying their own reality or beliefs, and that not all of those people are women.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 09/07/2021 14:45

The idea that certain cohort wanted something so badly, that they just thought people would fall in line.

It's one of the difficulties of social hegemony and control of an agenda being taken as an acknowledgement of one's absolutist moral supremacy rather than a consideration of how either of those were obtained.

If you achieved hegemony and control through lobbying and a lack of transparency and use those to bolster a sense that you are now a definitive moral arbiter for life - it must feel like rather a shock when there is some transparency and your actions or ideas are up for scrutiny. Or when people start questioning how we've found ourselves with non-scrutinised, unelected dominant forces who expect submission to the policies that previously went through on the nod, with no thought as to their consequences.

TalkingOutYerArse · 09/07/2021 14:48

Amazing they opened the comments. Ben will be spitting feathers. Noone is buying it.

TalkingOutYerArse · 09/07/2021 14:49

@PronounssheRa

Ben seems to think that all the comments are coming from Mumsnetters!!

Jesus, MN FWR really is powerful.

Alternatively, this is what happens when you live in a bubble Ben. This isn't a niche MN position, it's what most of the country think.

Alas, Ben has no insight so will continue to make himself look silly.

Absolutely!
Datun · 09/07/2021 14:56

@Whatsnewpussyhat

Well done for sending more traffic to the Radicalisation Portal though Grin

Ben doesn't seem to understand that most people outside of MN don't believe in gender ideology either and don't like being actively coerced into denying their own reality or beliefs, and that not all of those people are women.

I know. It's mind-boggling!

Does he honestly think that the general public agree that, eg, a man can walk into a space where there are naked women and children and sit down watching them with his tackle out, because he has claimed not to be a man!

I mean, I don't think there is any way even Ben Coen believes men are women. I do think he genuinely believes they are entitled to say so and get what they want tho.

Datun · 09/07/2021 14:56

*cohen

Skybluepinkgiraffe · 09/07/2021 15:01

I enjoy Caitlin Moran's articles in the Times. Her book 'More Than A Woman' is a very clear depiction about life as a middle aged woman and all that goes with it. She's not openly GC as it would be career suicide I imagine, but she's incredibly pro-woman and should be compulsory reading for anyone who says you're a woman if you say you are.
I assume the Times is making an attempt at 'balance'.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 09/07/2021 15:11

I don't think there is any way even Ben Coen believes men are women. I do think he genuinely believes they are entitled to say so and get what they want tho.

The argument used to be that nobody claims that.

And now the argument is that it's self evidently true. I've yet to see the UK fall to the US belief in eschatological interpretation (a fundamental that so many people who mouth off about 'the right wing' forget is the Marianas Trench between what this means in the UK and the US, particularly when faith is involved).

"Simone Weil wrote that “to be rooted is perhaps the most important and least recognized need of the human soul.” The modern condition of rootlessness is a foundational experience of totalitarianism; totalitarian movements succeed when they offer rootless people what they most crave: an ideologically consistent world aiming at grand narratives that give meaning to their lives. By consistently repeating a few key ideas, a manipulative leader provides a sense of rootedness grounded upon a coherent fiction that is “consistent, comprehensible, and predictable.”

The reason fact-checking is ineffective today — at least in convincing those who are members of movements — is that the mobilized members of a movement are confounded by a world resistant to their wishes and prefer the promise of a consistent alternate world to reality. When Donald Trump says he’s going to build a wall to protect our borders, he is not making a factual statement that an actual wall will actually protect our borders; he is signaling a politically incorrect willingness to put America first. When he says that there was massive voter fraud or boasts about the size of his inauguration crowd, he is not speaking about actual facts, but is insisting that his election was legitimate. “What convinces masses are not facts, and not even invented facts, but only the consistency of the system of which they are presumably part.”

Leaders of these mass totalitarian movements do not need to believe in the truth of their lies and ideological clichés. The point of their fabrications is not to establish facts, but to create a coherent fictional reality. What a movement demands of its leaders is the articulation of a consistent narrative combined with the ability to abolish the capacity for distinguishing between truth and falsehood, between reality and fiction."

lareviewofbooks.org/article/arendt-matters-revisiting-origins-totalitarianism/

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/07/2021 15:28

mean, I don't think there is any way even Ben Coen believes men are women. I do think he genuinely believes they are entitled to say so and get what they want tho.

I think that's the case with most male allies.

WhatKatyDidNot · 09/07/2021 15:41

Jesus, MN FWR really is powerful.

Did we win the MNHQ-imposed sex and gender debate already? No wonder Ben was so keen on #nodebate. It's only taken a fortnight and already all the men who read The Times agree with us.

DialSquare · 09/07/2021 17:09

It's so laughable. They really can't seem to grasp that most of the population agree with us.

FKATondelayo · 09/07/2021 18:34

I like how much he mentions his wedding.
Does he think he's writing for Hello magazine?

FannyCann · 09/07/2021 18:52

I mean, I don't think there is any way even Ben Coen believes men are women.

He certainly knows which sort of woman he needs to provide him and his husband with a surrogate born baby (not to mention the type of woman that will be needed to supply an egg to create the embryo) and it's definitely not a woman with a penis. 🤷‍♀️

Whatwouldscullydo · 09/07/2021 18:56

Not having access to a surrogate or fertility treatment is also homophobic but not dating a transman and having a baby never seems to be an option for gay men ....

FloralBunting · 09/07/2021 19:29

Oh god, is he still talking?

Pipe down Ben, you dull little man.

FloralBunting · 09/07/2021 19:36

Love the commenter among many calling for Repeal saying the GRA was a 'squalid ruse'.

Choice words. Bravo, my friend.

ScreamingMeMe · 09/07/2021 21:04

A woman is always to blame...

noraclavicle · 09/07/2021 21:30

One of the commenters stated that Cohen’s husband is a Mermaids trustee. Is that really the case?

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 09/07/2021 21:34

@noraclavicle

One of the commenters stated that Cohen’s husband is a Mermaids trustee. Is that really the case?
Yes, Anthony James has been (don't know about current status).

Anthony, who recently celebrated becoming the Chair of the Royal College of GPs Trainee Community, is determined to make changes in the world: "I do a lot of work in the LGBT+ space - I work for the royal college of GPs as part of their LGBT steering group, I work for PinkNews as a health advisor, I work as one of the leads on the TedX NHS. I've been a trustee of Mermaids which is a trans young people charity - there's a lot going on."

www.hellomagazine.com/brides/2020031086032/benjamin-cohen-pink-news-wedding-husband-anthony-james/

noraclavicle · 09/07/2021 21:41

A GP no less, EmbarrassingAdmissions. Thanks

NotBadConsidering · 09/07/2021 22:04

Mumsnetters orchestrated the comments? 😆😆

There are over 500 comments on the article and the most recommended has around 600 recommendations. This thread has fewer than 75 posts. What an amazing influential ratio! Who coordinated all the lurkers? Was it you Igneococcus? Is there some sort of initiation sequence to trigger the flying monkeys over to wherever they’re needed?

Ben Cohen in the Times
Igneococcus · 09/07/2021 22:14

I'm famously crap at organizing crowds, despite being tall, scary and German NotBadConsidering it wasn't me. I do have a few comments with a lot of recommendations (and a few deletions too), so I was pulling my weight in that comment section, but I wasn't masterminding it.

OP posts:
NotBadConsidering · 09/07/2021 22:17

If it wasn’t you, it was clearly all the right wing fundamentalist puppeteers pulling strings in the dark recesses of the Internet 🧐.

Alternatively as a theory maybe, just maybe, there are plenty of people who read the Times who think Cohen is talking out of his arse.

Datun · 09/07/2021 22:20

Just had another look at the comments. Still, no one is buying it. But now they're being deleted for saying so.

They cant believe it. Apparently even asking a question is getting deleted.

So now you've got a bunch of people who don't believe women's rights should be eroded, added to a whole bigger bunch who are fuming about free speech and censorship!

Swipe left for the next trending thread