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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Emma Corrin (the young Princess Di) and breast binders

127 replies

Justme56 · 06/07/2021 13:28

"Emma Corrin is embracing a “new” and “intimate” journey as she reveals she has bought her first binder"

Article in the independent (sorry behind a paywall) about Emma who played the young Princess Di in 'The Crown'. Emma is also discussing this on her Instagram page (650k followers) highlighting where she buys hers from (gc:2b).

OP posts:
Kotatsu · 06/07/2021 16:19

I have no idea, but it's very common for breasts to be bigger post-kids. And not just the inflation that happens and goes down during breast feeding. It's happened to virtually every woman I know.

I wonder what the difference is between those earlier corsets and these binders. Presumably no corset was designed to flatten the breast tissue in such a way.

Aahahaha - I once made and wore an Elizabethan corset - albeit with modern boning. That's the one that's designed to kinda make you into a barrel shape with your boobs squashed in and kinda trying to escape out the top rather than shape your waist.

It was surprisingly comfortable - the only place it dug in was where I'd made it slightly too long in the body, so if I sat down it kinda dug into the top of my hips at the waist, or into my armpits (depending on where it had settled itself). It wasn't really restrictive though apart from the stiffness in the body - it was much more like cross between a sportsbra and a plaster cast - squishing the squishy bits, but not forcing the non-squishy bits.

CharlieParley · 06/07/2021 16:29

@ThursdayWeld

I don't see the harm.

It's probably no tighter than a sports bra for running.

It does. The most often quoted survey comes from survey an organisation that supports binding carried out and found that 97% of all the respondents who bound their breasts reported at least one negative side effect of doing so.

Breast binding can and should be compared to other activities where an individual seeks to alleviate psychological pain by seeking physiological change.

As it frequently causes permanent damage to skin, muscles or bone, always causes physical discomfort with physical pain experienced by three quarters who bind, it can legitimately be compared to and arguably be categorised as self-harm.

Like other forms of self-harm, it is not an effective way to deal with the underlying emotional distress and any relief it provides can therefore only ever be temporary.

Celebrating it like this article in the Mail, glamourising it, is therefore wholly irresponsible and rightly compared to pro-ana material.

I should emphasise that although that survey showed that 97% experience at least one negative outcome, more than half of them experienced at least two negative outcomes. That's a serious cause for concern.

The authors surveyed only on the 28 negative outcomes most commonly reported in the medical literature and information provided by those who bind.

Here they are in full:

rib fractures, back pain, chest pain, rib or spine changes, bad posture, shoulder pain, shoulder joint ‘popping’, muscle wasting, numbness, headache, overheating, fatigue, weakness, lightheadedness or dizziness, cough, respiratory infections, shortness of breath, heartburn, abdominal pain, digestive issues, breast changes, breast tenderness, scarring, swelling, acne, itch, skin changes and skin infections.

Separately mentioned were spinal misalignment, fluid build-up in the lungs, collapsed lung, sores and permanent skin damage.

Can you point me to the research, ThursdayWeld that reports that wearing a sports bra while you're out running results in the same health problems?

FYI, several skin issues, which were experienced by over half of survey respondents, are associated with poorer outcomes if "chest reconstruction surgery" is pursued later. That's one of the reasons why the transmasculine community is so concerned about the safety of breast binding.

The survey also only asked adults about their experiences. In the developing child negative outcomes can be expected to be worse and occur more often.

That's because there are no safe binding methods. There are no clinical guidelines for binding safely. Commercial binders, which are perceived to be safer by the transmasculine community, are in reality associated with more negative outcomes, but even sports bras and minimisers are included in the list of binding methods leading to negative outcomes. This is not because sports bras are inherently unsafe, but because they are designed to be worn for shorter periods and not for the ten hour duration on seven-days-a-week most respondents chose to wear them.

reprehensibleme · 06/07/2021 16:37

Kotatsu, same here - tried all sorts of bras, have shoulder, back and neck pain and my posture is affected. Am looking more like Les Dawson's MIL as I age and the boobs drop. Seriously thought about reduction surgery - wish I'd had it done 30 years ago, but of course the surgeon wouldn't hear of it - what if I wanted to breast feed in the future etc etc. Can't get it done on the NHS now and can't afford to go private. Obvs if I came out as a trans man I'd probably qualify for surgery on the NHS Hmm.

Afaic a breast reduction in my case would be a medical procedure about pain relief. I'm guessing TRAs consider binding, mastectomies etc to have a medical basis - for mental health?

Helleofabore · 06/07/2021 16:42

It's probably no tighter than a sports bra for running.

Having read some of ThursdayWeld posts in the past, I think they have a trans child so this might affect their perception about binders. Either way, it would be really great if people would stop spreading this sort of misinformation and read the results of the studies posted way back on page 1 even.

CharlieParley · 06/07/2021 16:46

Why does that happen? I'm curious to know why it can lead to a permanent growth in breast tissue. Hormones I assume?

That's right EarthSight. If you read up on lactogenesis (what changes in the breast are necessary so that we can feed a baby), you'll see that a completed puberty does not bring the breast to maturation. Breast development is only complete after pregnancy and labour, when the brain (specifically the pituitary gland) sends out the signals stimulating the maturation of breast tissue.

Of course that doesn't mean that every woman has bigger breasts after having a child, but it seems to be common. I'm not sure my own experience is that common though as I went up 8 cup sizes in total. (Probably 3 or 4 with the first pregnancy, then another two or three each with my second and third child.)

Here is an informative science paper explaining the physiological process of lactogenesis:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK499981/

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 06/07/2021 16:46

@Butchyrestingface

Excellent. Maybe once she gets bored of promoting breast binders, she can start eroticising smoking, binge-drinking, overeating and female genital mutilation.
Talking of which, why don't these celebs use their huge platforms to raise awareness and money for FGM charities? The breastbinder supplier has been thoroughly plugged, and will have received a spate of orders.

Think what someone with 650k followers could do with a couple of posts for the Orchid Project.

Sophoclesthefox · 06/07/2021 16:47

Those side effects make me so sad Sad

That young women are being encouraged to hate their female bodies in a new way is horrible, but kind of unsurprising. Our bodies are always wrong. Too fat, too thin, too booby, too flat, too much bum, not enough bum, all just wrong. A new front in an old war.

Whatwouldscullydo · 06/07/2021 16:54

Our bodies arealwayswrong. Too fat, too thin, too booby, too flat, too much bum, not enough bum, all just wrong. A new front in an old war

Its not just the physical effects we need to worry about either.

What are the effects on children/young adults who can't join in with the fun other kids are having. Who have to call.it after a few mins as its too hot or they can't breathe. Who's solution to bring a friend to keep them.company whike they go sit inside or cool down or catch their breath falls through because actually they'd rather stay out and play or for once don't want to have to "baby sit" fir want of a better word.

What do these people do when all.their friends are out having fun?

How does that affect them?

AsTreesWalking · 06/07/2021 17:19

I read an interview with Emma where she talked about her desire to show just how awful Diana's mental anguish was, and the lengths she went to in an attempt to alleviate it through physical suffering (bulimia) -she was determined not to sugar Coat it in The Crown.
It seems to me that there's a certain amount of cognitive dissonance going on...

Delphinium20 · 06/07/2021 17:46

@Rhannion

This is the 21st century version of foot binding ; damaging and appalling.
Agree completely. And that horrid practice lasted 1000 years.
AfternoonToffee · 06/07/2021 18:38

@Butchyrestingface

Excellent. Maybe once she gets bored of promoting breast binders, she can start eroticising smoking, binge-drinking, overeating and female genital mutilation.
Oh she couldn't possibly talk about FGM what with it being so exclusionary.
OverByYer · 07/07/2021 09:30

I wondered if there was a thread on here. I found the images and the article really disturbing. I don’t understand though the preferred pronoun she/ they. If they’re non binary wouldn’t it be it/they? I genuinely find it confusing

WomaninBoots · 07/07/2021 10:15

It should be they/them I think.

Thems clearly grammatically fluid too.

Butchyrestingface · 07/07/2021 11:15

@OverByYer

I wondered if there was a thread on here. I found the images and the article really disturbing. I don’t understand though the preferred pronoun she/ they. If they’re non binary wouldn’t it be it/they? I genuinely find it confusing
She'll want to be 'she' for acting roles.

And 'they' for the wokesters on social media, advertising, etc.

PaleGreenGhost · 07/07/2021 11:35

Of course binders are tighter than a sports bra for running! Compression bras only make women with small breasts seem flatter chested. Women with larger breasts tend to run in slightly different sports bras which allow the breast to be enclosed within a moulded cup. Tight, yes, but nowhere near tight enough to give the illusion of a smaller chest. If I try and run in a compression style bra (which doesn't make me look flat chested at all) I feel as if I will suffocate.

SirVixofVixHall · 07/07/2021 13:13

Yes, I am a large cup size, and I can’t wear the very flattening type of sports bra, I need one with a proper cup that is simply more rigid and more enclosing to minimise bounce. I can’t even wear a wetsuit for long without being really uncomfortable as they are not shaped with room for breasts.

FloralBunting · 07/07/2021 15:03

@OverByYer

I wondered if there was a thread on here. I found the images and the article really disturbing. I don’t understand though the preferred pronoun she/ they. If they’re non binary wouldn’t it be it/they? I genuinely find it confusing
As I said earlier, it's a complete redundancy. Every single woman on the planet is referred to using she or they. It's how the English language works.
OverByYer · 07/07/2021 17:12

@FloralBunting Exactly

Precipice · 07/07/2021 17:13

Binders for supposed gender dysphoria puzzle me - surely if you have such a problem with your breasts, you will be more reminded of their existence by the discomfort of wearing a binder, whereas if you found yourself a comfortable and supportive bra, you wouldn't think about it as much? It's the prioritising of the 'look' over the 'feel' and therefore of the outside validation (supposed) over the direct effect on you. I suppose that's not out of keeping with the attempt to police how others see you.

PropertyFlipper · 07/07/2021 17:18

She’s a fucking disgrace.

I could weep at the thought of young girls seeing this ridiculous activity and thinking it as normal or desirable.

PearlNextDoor · 08/07/2021 07:05

Well, the comments are all versions of oh for God's sake.

It's weird, in the pictures, she is posing in a very 'fragile' ballerina feminine kind of way. There's no incongruity in her ''gender'' in the photos she posed for to accompany the article. What the hell is the point so?

Igneococcus · 08/07/2021 07:15

I started several comments and deleted them again because I don't even know where to start with this.

StealthPolarBear · 08/07/2021 07:33

Apparently she/they are just normal pronouns for a woman. I challenged pink news on their headline "X changes her pronouns to she/they" suggesting it should have said "their pronouns" and was told it just means the person uses she-type pronouns and they-type pronouns.
As we all do.
Not sure what she/her means in thay context then - refusal to use they-type pronouns presumably.

StealthPolarBear · 08/07/2021 07:35

@Precipice

Binders for supposed gender dysphoria puzzle me - surely if you have such a problem with your breasts, you will be more reminded of their existence by the discomfort of wearing a binder, whereas if you found yourself a comfortable and supportive bra, you wouldn't think about it as much? It's the prioritising of the 'look' over the 'feel' and therefore of the outside validation (supposed) over the direct effect on you. I suppose that's not out of keeping with the attempt to police how others see you.
External validation is what this whole thing is all about. Similar to the insistence of a certain group of trans women (with penises) of accessing women's spaces. Not all - I know many trans women disagree strongly.
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