Helen Webberley

[Signalbox]

Looks like Helem Webberley's substantive case has finally been listed for 26th July 2021

www.mpts-uk.org/hearings-and-decisions/medical-practitioners-tribunals/dr-helen-webberley-jul-21

@FlyingOink

Faffertea and CharlieParley I'll take back my generalisation about GPs, I can't back it up. My observations were anecdotal and obviously don't apply to all GPs, but like I say, I can't back it up so apologies.

No worries. It's easy done, I generalise, too, even when I shouldn't (probably because I shouldn't).

Most of all, I don't doubt you will have had some negative experiences with GPs or know of others who have had them. As do I.

I just wanted to point out that I don't believe it's true in general.

However, here in the UK in 2021 government statistics suggest that 17 million adults – 49 per cent of the working-age population of England – have the numeracy level that we expect of primary school children.

Last comment on this (on this thread). Yes, I missed that it said 'England'.

The quoted sentence seems to be comparing the total number of adults in the UK with poor numeracy to the working age population in England. Seems designed to be misleading.

They could have said: 'There are 17m adults in the UK with low numeracy. This is a figure equivalent to 49% of the working-age population of England.' If they had phrased it like this I wouldn't have an issue with it.

EmbarrassingAdmissions your interpretation seems to be that all those 17m are of working age and living in England. It doesn't actually say that, and 'here in the UK' implies that the 17m applies to the whole of the UK and includes all ages. They didn't provide a source as far as I could see, so I don't know whether this 17m is for all ages in the UK or working-age only in England, so I have no idea if your interpretation is correct or if mine is.

If you want to start a thread about this somewhere more appropriate and @ me I will be happy to contribute.

Tanner stage 2 is age 9 - 11. I can’t imagine the damage that could be done to future generations by “harvesting” sperm and eggs at ages 9 - 11. Are they even ready to be harvested if a child hasn’t started puberty????

In order to “harvest” the gametes you’d have to give a cocktail of sex hormones to “ripen” them, which would be the very opposite of what they want the puberty blockers for.

Sheesh. The woman has some serious gaps in her basic knowledge as well as a total lack of contact with reality.

And as for consulting with “lay colleagues” in order to assess her own medical competence? Next time I feel like performing open heart surgery, I think I’ll consult with the milkman first - I’m sure he will reassure me that my medical expertise is up to scratch. 🤦‍♀️

@irresistibleoverwhelm

Tanner stage 2 is age 9 - 11. I can’t imagine the damage that could be done to future generations by “harvesting” sperm and eggs at ages 9 - 11. Are they even ready to be harvested if a child hasn’t started puberty????

In order to “harvest” the gametes you’d have to give a cocktail of sex hormones to “ripen” them, which would be the very opposite of what they want the puberty blockers for.

Sheesh. The woman has some serious gaps in her basic knowledge as well as a total lack of contact with reality.

And as for consulting with “lay colleagues” in order to assess her own medical competence? Next time I feel like performing open heart surgery, I think I’ll consult with the milkman first - I’m sure he will reassure me that my medical expertise is up to scratch. 🤦‍♀️

Exactly. I’m sure the window cleaner will have something to say too.

Tweets by @tribunaltweets

22nd Sept...

Thread 1
twitter.com/tribunaltweets/status/1440607803425517572

Thread 2
twitter.com/tribunaltweets/status/1440618115692314629

Thread 3
twitter.com/tribunaltweets/status/1440635010839506958

22nd Sept

Thread 4
mobile.twitter.com/tribunaltweets/status/1440640072907313158

'A gender journey'?? Major medical intervention for a non-existing condition, which would be cured by normal puberty.

And she calls it a 'journey'.

She's not even consistent from day to day. In yesterday's evidence she talked about diagnosis of patients:

DRW: my view is that the function of the diagnosis is to ensure that the patient fulfils the criteria for medical intervention. Now to give an example. If someone is asking for birth control, no need for a diagnosis.

DRW: Gender incongruence is similar to a request for birth control. Do they fulfil the criteria for medical intervention. It's not my job to diagnose their gender identity."

twitter.com/tribunaltweets/status/1440246211722633221

Then today she says 'there must be a diagnosis [of gender dysphoria] before any interventions'.

mobile.twitter.com/tribunaltweets/status/1440640072907313158

@oldwomanwhoruns

'A gender journey'?? Major medical intervention for a non-existing condition, which would be cured by normal puberty.

And she calls it a 'journey'.

Yes gender journey sounds so innocuous does it?

@irresistibleoverwhelm

Tanner stage 2 is age 9 - 11. I can’t imagine the damage that could be done to future generations by “harvesting” sperm and eggs at ages 9 - 11. Are they even ready to be harvested if a child hasn’t started puberty????

In order to “harvest” the gametes you’d have to give a cocktail of sex hormones to “ripen” them, which would be the very opposite of what they want the puberty blockers for.

Sheesh. The woman has some serious gaps in her basic knowledge as well as a total lack of contact with reality.

And as for consulting with “lay colleagues” in order to assess her own medical competence? Next time I feel like performing open heart surgery, I think I’ll consult with the milkman first - I’m sure he will reassure me that my medical expertise is up to scratch. 🤦‍♀️

Also the process is assessed by ultrasound - that is internal ultrasound using an ultrasound wand which is inserted in the vagina.

22nd Sept afternoon session

Thread 5
twitter.com/tribunaltweets/status/1440668383771430928

Thread 6
twitter.com/tribunaltweets/status/1440672651710636036

Justifying the need for Testosterone at 12 years old... I think they just make stuff up as they are going along? I mean if you actually had a boy twin and a girl twin they wouldn't start puberty at exactly the same time and you wouldn't medicate the boy twin so that they started earlier when the girl twin started their puberty. Also boy and girl twins can't be identical so by calling them identical HW is outing herself as thinking that they are both female...

"SJ: I suggest that there's a tension. You prescribed to relieve the patients distress but then did nothing to try and mitigate the distress? DRW: there were 2 potential harms. One was the inability to access medical care. The second was the wait to start 'puberty' until 16.

DRW cont Patient A had fully socially transitioned, his gender identity was not causing him distress it was the inability to go through desired puberty was causing him distress.

SJ:Dr Klink has observed that there are other ways to alleviate distress. And from a demographic point of view, most boys present external signs of puberty from 14 with some not presenting until 16. There is no need for testosterone at age 12.

DRW: its a theoretical argument and what we looked at yesterday was an earlier presentation of puberty. Dr Klink can make a judgement but we need to treat people individually, A has identical twin going through female puberty and an older brother. Social factors impact."

22nd Sept

Thread 7
twitter.com/tribunaltweets/status/1440678865223835650

Thread 8
twitter.com/tribunaltweets/status/1440695900356050953

In which SJ reads a quote from HW where she refers to a UCLH practitioner of inflicting psychological torture on patient A by preventing puberty!

.

So patient A was exhibiting violence and 'tearing the family apart' - sounds like adolescence to me, not a case for puberty blockers ..

his gender identity was not causing him distress it was the inability to go through desired puberty was causing him distress.

But how could that puberty be possible?

Testosterone can create the appearance of some secondary sexual characteristics (whenever it is taken), but that isn’t the same as puberty.

Webberley seems to confuse puberty (the process of reaching sexual maturity) and the desire to have an appearance which reflects a particular self image related to sex.

Phew! That Twitter thread is unbelievable. The woman is unhinged…

22nd Sept

Thread 9
twitter.com/tribunaltweets/status/1440704398858997767

SJ questions HW in relation to consent.
End of session.
HW evidence continues tomorrow.

From that thread
SJ: is there any assessment of the capacity of consent other than the documentation of the consent process? DRW: the assessment of capacity is a multi-factoral process that began with emails from mum and a poem from Patient A.

Some useful summing here

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/making-it-up-as-they-go-along

@MonsignorMirth

From that thread SJ: is there any assessment of the capacity of consent other than the documentation of the consent process? DRW: the assessment of capacity is a multi-factoral process that began with emails from mum and a poem from Patient A.

Yes, I'm interested in this idea of consent by poetry.

Is this a new thing?

In the same discussion she says ""DRW: distress is a state of mind, not necessarily a mental disorder. Capacity doesn't come and go."

Which is surely just wrong - of course capacity can fluctuate.

I think a doctor needs a better understanding of capacity than she seems to have.

As Arabella says above, Dr W is very consistent in her view that she is the best and everyone else is wrong.

They ask why she hasn't communicated with GIDS to let them know she's prescribing testosterone to a joint patient. Her reply is:

"DRW: Good medical practice is intensively cooperative. My understanding is that the paragraph is directed at GPs that were not providing appropriate treatment to trans and non-binary people because GPs were reluctant to provide referrals and care."

In the same discussion she says ""DRW: distress is a state of mind, not necessarily a mental disorder. Capacity doesn't come and go."

Which is surely just wrong - of course capacity can fluctuate.

I think a doctor needs a better understanding of capacity than she seems to have.

Quite, and importantly it’s known that mental health issues, depression or suicidality can affect capacity and decision making. I think that must be why they are so keen to make out that any distress exhibited by a child who claims to be “trans” (pre transition) stems from a single cause which is the “mismatch” between body and mind. Once the body is fixed to match the mind any residual distress can only be the result of external issues (transphobia, lack of validation by nasty terfs etc.) Any other potential causes for mental distress is completely ignored.