Ms, Mrs, Mr

[Keepitonthedownlow]

Why don't we just put these in email signatures? Is it not the same as pronouns? Why is this considered old fashioned, and the other progressive?

I prefer titles to pronouns. A title is saying 'if you would like to address me formally, this is how you do it'.

Pronouns are saying 'this is how I want you to refer to me when I am not around'.

I have used Ms since I turned 18. Miss and Mrs strike me as terribly archaic. I'm not sure anyone still uses those titles in an office setting.

Because that would be quite useful to women as it affects them in daily life. Though using Ms would of course fix it too (that seems to be beyond quite a lot of people).

I use Ms and am repeatedly changed to Miss because of it.

My estate agents and children's school have all also renamed me so I appear to be my DH's sister rather than wife with her own name. I have occasionally responded with

Regards,
Ms BladyBlady

I dislike both Miss, Ms and Mrs. They all create an opinion about you all of which I reject. I wish we had one term for women.

@LetsTalkBoutSexBabyThereArTwo

Because that would be quite useful to women as it affects them in daily life. Though using Ms would of course fix it too (that seems to be beyond quite a lot of people).

Ms doesn't solve this, it is a loaded term. It is not comparable to Mr.

It's only loaded if you don't know what it means. It's a traditional title and comes from the same root words as Miss and Mrs. It's extremely common in the US and no one seems to have any issue using it there for a woman who has no requested a different title. If it is "loaded" for some, I don't care. Big hairy feminist is fine by me. I'd prefer it to Miss anyday.

@Mxflamingnoravera

Why bother? Who cares about titles? They are old fashioned and unnecessary.

Who cares about imposed pronouns?

I see 'Ms' used in official correspondence all the time. I'm not sure it is as loaded as it once was.

I work in a school so I get called ‘Title Lastname’ most of the time. For that reason I have Ms Firstname Lastname as my email signature. As I have a very feminine first name I would expect to get emails addressed to ‘Ms’ even if I didn’t have it on there, so maybe it doesn’t make much difference. It’s the norm for me, but I guess it does actually seem a bit old fashioned now I think about it.

My experience with pupils is that they either address all women as Miss or all women as Mrs, so it doesn’t make any difference to them either

Ms. is only 'loaded' if you are coming from starting point of thinking women should just accept quietly being categorized as potentially sexually available/already designated to another man.

The fact that 'Ms' is styled as the choice of harridans etc. is directly connected to that. How very dare women want a neutral term. My god, the presumption.

@NiceGerbil

Men are Mr. No clues or assumptions about marital status/ sexual availability. Age, what sort of person etc.

Women were miss/ Mrs. Plenty of clues and assumptions.

Feminists years ago said let's have it balanced.

Mr/ms.

Lots of women didn't like that though esp with Mrs.

So there's 3. All with even more assumptions and different meanings.

Ms to some means divorced. To others means hairy angry feminist.

So even more assumptions about what sort of person you are!

I think the bigger issue is whether you put Mrs, Ms or Miss you immediately find yourself taken less seriously or any of the many ways unconscious bias comes into play.
I do not give out my first name or initials, title or even dreaded pronouns easily. I use my initials of my first name and middle name together without a space to trick sites asking for my first name.
Sometimes I will use Dr as a title when forced when what I am doing/communicating really doesn’t need it, but force it through their system. There are enough hidden handicaps for women trying to communicate and being taken as seriously as men without publicising it from the get go.

Anyway, men assume stuff…I had a tradesperson around yesterday to give a quote for work. Live by myself. Despite leaving my details as Initials surname, as soon as I opened the door he called me Mrs. Surname
Later on he told me I of course would need to discuss with my husband .🤦‍♀️

Later on he told me I of course would need to discuss with my husband

Sorry, I'd hire you but my husband thinks you're a dick

@FloralBunting

Ms. is only 'loaded' if you are coming from starting point of thinking women should just accept quietly being categorized as potentially sexually available/already designated to another man.

The fact that 'Ms' is styled as the choice of harridans etc. is directly connected to that. How very dare women want a neutral term. My god, the presumption.

I don't think that but I know for certain others do.

EverythingDelegated has it exactly

It categorises women as:

Single
Married
Feminist / Probably divorced / bitter hag

It categorises men as:

Men.

I want a category that means woman.

My women CEO prefers to include her pronouns because she gets fed up with people assuming she's a man. If you are gender critical, you are still referred to in the third person, so I don't see the issue with stating what your pronouns are. Many gender non-confirming non-trans women are misgendered, too.

@DadJoke

My women CEO prefers to include her pronouns because she gets fed up with people assuming she's a man. If you are gender critical, you are still referred to in the third person, so I don't see the issue with stating what your pronouns are. Many gender non-confirming non-trans women are misgendered, too.

We're actually discussing Ms/Mrs/Miss do you have any thoughts on that or did you want a chance to mansplain something you have posted about repeatedly elsewhere?

I want a category that means woman.

You don't though. Because that's what Ms has always meant. I could come up with a fourth option but you and other people who can't accept that their feelings are rooted in sexism would say the fourth option is for "feminist hags"

Any woman who chooses the option besides "Miss" or "Mrs" is making a feminist choice and therefore a bitter hag right?

I had to apply for a DBS check recently. As soon as I clicked the 'Ms' option I had to supply my 'unmarried name' as evidently the person designing the form had decided that Ms means divorced woman. Slightly complicated for me as I've been Ms Cowgirl since I opened my first proper bank account at the age of 18, getting married made no difference to my surname.

I would happily get rid of titles altogether, unless they are something impressive like Prof or Doc.

I think people who put "Mrs" in their email signature are dickheads, almost on a par with the she/her contingent.

You're married. Wonderful. Why is that relevant to me who is emailing you about a supplier contract?

Bizarre.

I don't need to know the sex, or marital status, or work correspondents, it's entirely irrelevant.

Same applies to Miss/Ms and Mr. But weirdly nobody ever puts any of those.

@NoGenderPleaseImBritish I was responding to other posters who mentioned the use of pronouns.

I have no issue with Ms, Mx or Mr in email sigs, but if you are adding honorifics for the purposes of denoting gender, then Dr or Prof doesn't do that job. Miss and Mrs are outdated and sexist.

I imagine a bat signal shaped like this ⚥ that people see when pronouns are mentioned.

I have no issue with Ms, Mx or Mr in email sigs, but if you are adding honorifics for the purposes of denoting gender, then Dr or Prof doesn't do that job.

Why would you need to denote gender in an email signature?

@OldCrone

I have no issue with Ms, Mx or Mr in email sigs, but if you are adding honorifics for the purposes of denoting gender, then Dr or Prof doesn't do that job.

Why would you need to denote gender in an email signature?

I was answering the OP, who said: "Why don't we just put these in email signatures? Is it not the same as pronouns? Why is this considered old fashioned, and the other progressive?"

As to why people want to denote gender in an email signature, it's because people in high-powered roles (generally women) get misgendered, and it's irritating for them. If it doesn't annoy you, then it's not an issue for you.

Personally, I very much like PhDs putting "Dr" before their name - it's been really empowering for women.

If you are gender critical, you are still referred to in the third person, so I don't see the issue with stating what your pronouns are. Many gender non-confirming non-trans women are misgendered, too.

I don't care if I'm misgendered. It's not the 'woe is me' moment that some people like to make out it is.

Sorry catching up.

'It's a traditional title and comes from the same root words as Miss and Mrs'

It's not traditional at all, surely? I mean in the sense it's always been around and commonly used.

It was not common when I was growing up, and it was most definitely taken esp by men that any woman using it was likely to be a dungaree wearing, man hating, angry feminist.

I thought it started being pushed in the 60s and gradually grew in use?

And thinking about it. I always used it. But I don't think I've come across many other women who did IRL. if I know of course! None of my friends do I don't think.

Maybe it's more common in other areas? I'm in London.