Sainsbury's and gender neutral toilets

[McDuffy]

So, Ocado's knee jerk reaction to Posie's AHF poster is what brought me over here almost three years ago. I had been a loyal customer for so long that I was on their freebies panel and still ditched them over this (I miss them, great service but my principles on this trumped that).
We switched to Sainsbury's and I've got a delivery pass with them. Just seen (Jean Hatchet on Twitter) that they're introducing "gender neutral" loos and I'm going to leave to make a point. DH does the food shop but is a big ally to women and will agree to switch.

Who's left to use? Tesco and Waitrose are captured too. Are Asda or Morrisons in the cult? I can shop locally to an extent but both of us work full time and have two small kids so need a delivery at the moment.

Also, I went to a venue last month which had “female” and “gender neutral” toilets. I thought this was a good compromise.

In a petrol station. Key required for women’s toilet but not for men. The male assistant behind the counter said that men couldn’t be trusted not to be dirty and would just do the same to the womens toilet as the6 already do to the main one. I was lavish in my praise of the exceptionally clean one I went in!

@Thecatonthemat

In a petrol station. Key required for women’s toilet but not for men. The male assistant behind the counter said that men couldn’t be trusted not to be dirty and would just do the same to the womens toilet as the6 already do to the main one. I was lavish in my praise of the exceptionally clean one I went in!

Well done, that man! Though it probably saves them cleaning two disgusting toilets rather than one, so it's in their own interests, too.

@ifIwerenotanandroid

Somewhere yesterday I read the suggestion that women's toilets should remain single-sex/female only, & all the women who say, "Oh, but I don't mind who comes into the toilets with me," should use the men's toilets because they don't mind sharing with males.

I know it's been said before, but it really makes sense, stated like that. Also, queues in the ladies would go down, TW would be validated & not outed (females use those toilets too), & if (God forbid) there were to be an attack on a TW, female allies would be on hand to protect the TW & fight off male attackers - because that's what we're told should happen in women's toilets.

Good point. Makes sense put like that.

@CharlieParley

I seriously don’t get the angst

In the supermarket I shop in fairly often a male transgender individual committed a sexual assault in the ladies. Attacking a child. If single-sex provisions for females had been respected, that wouldn't have happened. In a local swimming pool, another male transgender person secretly filmed young girls changing in the mixed-sex changing rooms. The same happened in the women's toilet in another supermarket (different perpetrator, also male transgender individual).

All leaving behind deeply traumatised young girls whose lives have been irrevocably changed.

There are many more cases like that across the country. And that's in addition to countless cases where other male predators transgress women's and children's boundaries.

That's why we have single-sex toilets.

If you want to remove a safeguard you must first show that the reason the safeguard was put in place for no longer exists.

Male violence against women and girls remains endemic. Female-only toilets where a strong social taboo used to keep out all but the most brazen of predators, exist for a reason.

Together with many aid organisations the UN is spending lots of money and effort building single-sex toilets for women and girls in developing countries, because their lack is severely impacting on women and girls' health and safety, leading to illness and many rapes and murders.

Do you believe our men are so much more civilised than the men in those countries so that we no longer have to fear male violence?

The answer is no. They are no more civilised, they just have fewer opportunities. And that is what mixed-sex toilets represent. More opportunities for sexual predators.

So, do you get the angst now?

Pretty much what my friend eloquently says here.

Asda, Aldi & Iceland for me from now on then - will save a fortune.

the toilets in my local one are down a long corridor and remote - gents door is always open as its broken (obviously needs planing) and has been for years. Gents toilets are dirty too and whenever i use them its always strange old duffers coming from outside rather than customers.

the last few times i've been in there its been like a morgue and its in a town centre. was in there friday night and there were more staff present than customers.

wonder if their share price will take a hit as the news spreads and more people take their custom elsewhere. They are arrogant and stupid if they think they have no rivals out there and their customers are so loyal that they'll stick with them no matter what.

I only stuck with them for nectar points but you don't get as many of them anymore for the amount spent.

Hope their profits go the way of M&S and others of their ilk.

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/toilet-provision-for-men-and-women-call-for-evidence/toilet-provision-for-men-and-women-call-for-evidence

This link is to the Government calls for evidence that happened in January. The consultation is now closed, but if you read the pre-amble by the Ministry for Housing and Local Government, it is clear that the Government views single sex loos as being essential and that they will consider 'gender neutral' loos separately and if required. This was not a debate, this was asking for technical review. The decision is made. Those who say bringing back single sex loos can't be policed are in cloud cuckoo land. We have trading standards who could ensure guidance was being adhered to. Not only new builds but also those gender neutral ones already in place have to partition. There has been an update on this but can't find the link. It is now firmly set, so schools are having to sort too, if they had gone gender neutral

I doubt our 'it's all cool' friends will both reading the link

An 11 year old girl was raped in the toilets of a Sainsbury's in Leamington Spa a few years ago. This stuck in my mind because it was a store I had used. Why do they want to make it easier for men to do this? Why do they want to attract the kind of men who like to wank over things women will have to touch? (Gendertrender had a story of a male who liked to wipe his spunk on the toilet roll and then hang around until a woman used that cubicle.) Why do they want to make their stores a more hostile environment for the majority of their customers? If gender neutral toilets are progressive, why don't we tell the women in Africa, Asia and South America who are campaigning for single-sex toilets that they are lucky to already have progressive mixed-sex toilets?

Sainsbury’s had a case last year of a male employee secretly filming women using their mixed sexual changing rooms. You’d think that would have made them rethink, but apparently the privacy and safety of their tens of thousands of female staff don’t matter

Why should they get women’s money when they hate us. Also looking at you Waitrose, Ocado, M&S and John Lewis

[quote AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken]Here’s why many women want penis free areas for when we’re undressing and/ or feeling vulnerable, @MishyJDI and @HoppingPavlova

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.md/2021.05.08-115210/twitter.com/heke_nig/status/1383631390701281286" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">archive.md/2021.05.08-115210/twitter.com/heke_nig/status/1383631390701281286[/quote]
and yet they just want to pee and it never happens and when it does it doesn't and if someone wants to rape or assault you they will anyway so stop making a fuss.

Women - no-one gives a flying fuck about you or your children, what men want, men get, suck it up and stop whinging.

@RedDogsBeg
It’s a very disturbing read but it’s the best way to show what women are going to be subjected to and why we are so fucking angry.

The small % of sex offending trans women using a ‘gender neutral’ space in my local Sainsbury’s is probably very low.
Although women and girls have been sexually assaulted by transwomen in female toilets I don’t think that’s the main concern is it.

The main concern is putting women and girls into a shared space with men. Men are the perpetrators of most of (almost all) of the violence against women, sexual or otherwise.

How can it be regressive to keep women and girls safe?

In trying to be progressive for transgender folk they are putting us in a heightened vulnerable position aren’t they.

I guess a good question would be - if this wasn’t a trans issue, if it was a money issue and Sainsbury’s said “in the interest of cutting costs we are having mixed toilets in our stores” would everyone be fine with it? Would you be fine if your 12 year old daughter popped in for a wee and there’s a couple of 6ft men in there too.

If they can introduce multiple single cubicles, like the disabled or baby change facilities then fine. But I don’t want to have to go into a room and wait for a cubicle with men.

No fuck off sainsburys. And all the others too.

Also looking at you Waitrose, Ocado, M&S and John Lewis

Aren't M&S the ones who said they have 'secure, private' changing rooms, even though women have walked in them to find men standing there in women's underwear?

There's also one where men brag about wanking into women's clothes, ejaculating on the floor/leaving it on curtains/door handles etc, and getting off on knowing women will touch it 🤮 (don't know if that's M&S too?)

'Secure and private' cubicles are no good if they're going to let creeps like that in who don't bother shutting the door/curtain behind them. And why would they, their aim is to make women and girls uncomfortable, and these stores have given them the green light.

They put the sexual pleasure of males above the safety and privacy of females

Meanwhile in Edinburgh

www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-council-confirms-5m-toilets-20513536

usual moronic mantra in the comments about our toilets at home are gender neutral - idiots

@Tesla73

Meanwhile in Edinburgh

www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-council-confirms-5m-toilets-20513536

usual moronic mantra in the comments about our toilets at home are gender neutral - idiots

and i'm sure we won't be reading about any assaults in here any time soon

www.mylondon.news/news/north-london-news/camden-residents-divided-say-mixed-20525117

@yourhairiswinterfire

Also looking at you Waitrose, Ocado, M&S and John Lewis

Aren't M&S the ones who said they have 'secure, private' changing rooms, even though women have walked in them to find men standing there in women's underwear?

There's also one where men brag about wanking into women's clothes, ejaculating on the floor/leaving it on curtains/door handles etc, and getting off on knowing women will touch it 🤮 (don't know if that's M&S too?)

'Secure and private' cubicles are no good if they're going to let creeps like that in who don't bother shutting the door/curtain behind them. And why would they, their aim is to make women and girls uncomfortable, and these stores have given them the green light.

They put the sexual pleasure of males above the safety and privacy of females

Yep - its why I'm always happy to see news of more and more of their stores closing and profits falling.

Topshop had the same attitude when it came to changing rooms too - so happy when they went under

It’s a very good point about needing to build single sex toilets in developing countries. I wonder what Waitrose et al would have to say about that.

Btw Waitrose has gone manically woke, judging by the free newspaper thingy. It’s trans mad.

@Tesla73

Meanwhile in Edinburgh

www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-council-confirms-5m-toilets-20513536

usual moronic mantra in the comments about our toilets at home are gender neutral - idiots

Good short article on this subject here

www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/unisex-public-toilets-are-attack-on-womens-rights-kenny-macaskill-3233195#disqus-comment-section

@IrmaFayLear

It’s a very good point about needing to build single sex toilets in developing countries. I wonder what Waitrose et al would have to say about that.

Btw Waitrose has gone manically woke, judging by the free newspaper thingy. It’s trans mad.

Well, that's the end of me shopping there, then. I couldn't get Waitrose deliveries, so have been discovering the delights & otherwise of lots of other supermarkets & independent shops. We'll stick to those - & to deliveries, which I didn't have before the lockdown.

Horrifically a five year old boy was raped in the men's toilets of a local supermarket. I don't want my daughter using mixed sex toilets because men are riskier than women. I'm not keen on them myself and I think Muslim and orthodox Jewish women should have facilities they can use.

I'd like to bet the men's toilets aren't going gender neutral.

A seaside town near me rebuild the public toilets. They had been traditional women's one side men's the other, lots of cubicles in each although, as is also traditional, massive queue for the ladies, no queue ever from the men's. Anyway, this was pulled down and replaced with about 14 individual cubicles accessed straight from the street. Six were gender neutral, six men's only (because they contained only urinals) and two disabled. So of the 12 toilets available to non disabled people, all twelve were for men to use and only six for women. Fucking fuming about it.

@Kendodd

I'd like to bet the men's toilets aren't going gender neutral.

A seaside town near me rebuild the public toilets. They had been traditional women's one side men's the other, lots of cubicles in each although, as is also traditional, massive queue for the ladies, no queue ever from the men's. Anyway, this was pulled down and replaced with about 14 individual cubicles accessed straight from the street. Six were gender neutral, six men's only (because they contained only urinals) and two disabled. So of the 12 toilets available to non disabled people, all twelve were for men to use and only six for women. Fucking fuming about it.

That’s ridiculous

And thats the thing…

If men were being inconvenienced or ‘erased’ then id think ‘fair enough…brave new world and all that shit’

But no…its just women every single time…inclusive my arse

Up thread I've posted a link about Government gender neutral toilets. Your Local Authority will have to make amendments KenDodd. It's about bloody time there was an acknowledgement that women need more loos than men. After all these decades, they still have male architects thinking women are just the same as men. Our differences should tell them that our bladders might need more relief time than theirs