Is #bekind unkind?

[vivariumvivariumsvivaria]

I've lost an hour on twitter looking at the debate around the IOC decisions in sport and how that impacts on female athletes. Laurel Hubbard is at the centre of these discussions, and the way Laurel is described is often quite far from hashtag-be-kind. I expect this is the cause of some stress for Laurel.

I'm thinking of the kids in my 14 year old's class - 3 female born children who are all either autistic or care experienced, who are causing a lot of drama in the school with demands to control other kid's speech. One of these kids was upset with my son because although he used the other kids' preferred pronouns and latest new name, the other kid didn't believe that my son believed they are actually a boy. And so my son was told off for not believing that a kid he has known since nursery has magically changed sex.

I think honesty is kind - it might be hard to hear, and it might cause distress which needs managed, but it is better than telling untruths. The worst scene scenario is that someone lands up being the poster-trans for the Olympics and at the centre of a frank and sometimes personal debate.

Laurel is now a story that is getting more attention than the effect of the pandemic on the Olympics. By saying "yes" to Laurel the IOC have created a horrible situation for Laurel.

When did we stop thinking that saying "no" can be protective? Are we, as a society, doing harm to people by agreeing to pretend that humans can change sex?

I think #bekind can be misguided. Why should we #bekind to Laurel Hubbard when she is not extending the same courtesy to natal females from whom she has taken an Olympic place. Why should your son's #bekind mean that he actually has to believe something that is not true - who is being kind to him in this scenario?

I think in general we should be nice to people and not be arseholes but that doesn't mean we should give up our own boundaries in order to do so.

My only sympathy is for the poor woman who lost her place in the Olympic team.
Hubbard deserves to face all the opprobrium they are currently receiving. They knew what they were doing.
Males should not be allowed to compete in women’s sport because it is cheating, not because their feelings might be hurt by the resulting righteous anger.

One of these kids was upset with my son because although he used the other kids' preferred pronouns and latest new name, the other kid didn't believe that my son believed they are actually a boy.

I don’t think we do any favours allowing anyone to control our thinking or beliefs. Your DS is using the requested pronouns and name, that’s really all that can be asked if him.

And yes, I do think we do harm when #bekind means “set aside what you know and think the way I tell you”.

For clarity, Babdoc - I agree with you. Hubbard should not be taking the space a woman has trained for.

But, I don't think it is Hubbard's fault that elite sport has this ludicrous situation - it is the sporting bodies who are too chicken to say "no".

Surely anyone who is a parent knows that saying "no" is a kindness in many situations. Boundaries are important and there is nothing wrong with making them clear and enforcing them.

My son's classroom situation was interesting. It seems that he and the teacher both knew the quickest way of dealing with the situation was for her to tell him off for using his eyes and for him to take that on the chin. There was no punishment - it was just to de-escalate the other child's complaint.

He is looking forward to the holidays.

Agree, Assassinated - but I haven't seen much "no" in the trans debate.

Well, that's not true, I have seen a lot of women silenced and accused and punished for saying "no".

Indeed, it seems that women are most definitely not allowed to say "no".

#BeKind is only ever one directional.

I don't think Hubbard is to blame, as such. This has been facilitated by people that should know better and we should never be where we are now.

Hubbard is a grown man of course he is at fault.

If as a teenager someone was trying to compel my thoughts after I was using correct name & pronouns I'd have probably pushed back with using whatever pronouns I fancied & ending up not "being kind".
Nowadays I'd hope I'd have a bit more reasoned debate... But I'd probably just say oh fuck off.

Laurel previously competed in the male Olympics & knows full well how sports are sex-segregated. Something the IOC appear to have forgotten in favour of gender.

If anyone is threatening violence or wishing harm to them then this is obviously unacceptable.

anyone else of the opinion that the #bekind rule only applies to females?

i dont recall seeing shops stocking t-shirts with that slogan on for boys - only girls

I have no sympathy for Hubbard. Regardless of IOC ruling he chose to do this. To cause havoc to a women's sport, to shatter the dreams of numerous young women by taking their places, their medals and their opportunity.

As recently as the 1990s it was legal to rape your wife. I have no sympathy for those men either, for the pain they caused just because at the time they had the law on their side.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

I make sure my children know that it is kind to use the new name, and pronoun if strictly necessary (ie mostly you don't need to, the name will be enough) but that they never have to believe the person has changed sex. Get your son to read 1984, this is what we are living in.

Hmm, if a teacher was telling my child to lie, I would be requesting a polite discussion with that teacher. And then escalating it if necessary.
As for mollifying the other, upset spoiled brat - words fail me

I'm glad that your son wasn't upset by the incident, but I think it is completely wrong that he was told off at all. He was being 'kind' - he was using the name and pronouns that the other young person wanted him to.

Being told off because a classmate doesn't think he really believes they have changed sex is really worrying. He's allowed to have that belief. The teacher should have pointed out that people believe different things and that politeness towards other students is required but conformity of thought isn't.

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

My son's classroom situation was interesting. It seems that he and the teacher both knew the quickest way of dealing with the situation was for her to tell him off for using his eyes and for him to take that on the chin. There was no punishment - it was just to de-escalate the other child's complaint.

He is looking forward to the holidays.

I've been amazed throughout all this by the way this 'affirmation' runs so counter to the 'Cognitive Behaviour Therapy' approach which I found so helpful personally, or even just doing nothing and having teachers or other adults in care positions providing a stable 'North Star'. It's like all that has been thrown out of the window.

I've been amazed throughout all this by the way this 'affirmation' runs so counter to the 'Cognitive Behaviour Therapy' approach

Quite a few therapists have made this observation. A couple interviewed here:

My view is that "kindness" as a concept is too vague to be meaningful. My key issue is this:

Boundaries are important and there is nothing wrong with making them clear and enforcing them.

Setting and maintaining your personal boundaries is always going to necessitate some hard conversations and conflict. The key is how we navigate conflict with respect for each others' humanity and personal boundaries. Part of this is a recognition that we can ONLY influence our own thoughts and feelings. Never another's. So in that sense personal "boundaries" are limited. My boundaries can't compel anything from you. So for the example in the OP - the person "at fault" is the one compelling a belief in another and the adult not helping them see that there is a limit to what they can expect.

It's also why clarity in legal and policy boundaries is so important. This intolerable situation when law and policy makers are fudging the language of these "boundaries" renders them meaningless and is fuelling the discord.

the other kid didn't believe that my sonbelievedthey are actually a boy. And so my son was told off for not believing that a kid he has known since nursery has magically changed sex

My son's classroom situation was interesting. It seems that he and the teacher both knew the quickest way of dealing with the situation was for her to tell him off for using his eyes and for him to take that on the chin. There was no punishment - it was just to de-escalate the other child's complaint

There is no way I would let that stand. That teacher should not have told your son off to appease the other child. No one can change sex and no one can be forced to pretend otherwise.

'Be kind' is a load of bollocks that is usually said to women and girls as a way to remove their boundaries.

Oldwoman my first response was to have a chat. However, DS pointed out that both him and the teacher wanted to get on with the lesson and that was how they got that.

Which is fascinating - are staff and kids colluding to placate one kid (well, 3 in his class) in classrooms all over the country?

Whatsnew - I do agree. But, term finishes here on Friday and it's been a helluva year. So, I agreed to do what DS wanted - for me to leave it and take it up if it happens after the summer.

That is very interesting about CBT, thank you.

I have a bit of experience of ACT - which is similarly based. Good point.

I firmly object to the 'be kind' message and for it to be taught in school is a safeguarding fail in my book. My child is vulnerable and open to suggestion as many others are so 'be kind' puts them in harms way. Should they be kind to a stranger who asks them to help carry something to their car or is it still 'stranger danger'? should they be kind and take the blame for something they didn't do? Should they be and alliw a boy to have sex with them? Should they be kind and look after a package of drugs in case someone else gets into trouble? Should they be kind and let someone use their phone for shari g stuff/buy them lunch everyday/copu their homework?

God these kids are going to grow up so confused, with the amount of double think they are forced into. Sympathies with you, OP. I think in your situation I'd probably be having stern words with the school.