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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

London this Sunday!

139 replies

Maskless · 22/06/2021 15:58

At about 1pm on Sunday 27th June Kellie Jay Keen ("Posie Parker") is going to stand outside the New Zealand embassy with a stepladder, a loudhailer and a banner to protest that Laurel Hubbard has denied a deserving sportswoman a place in the Olympics. And will probably steal a woman's medal.

It would be great if people who care about women's sports could go along to support her.

OP posts:
PurpleHoodie · 28/06/2021 09:08

Have watched the full video on the other thread.

Star
PurpleHoodie · 28/06/2021 10:48

m.youtube.com/watch?v=V2bw2G371y8&feature=youtu.be

For anyone that may have missed it.

MishyJDI · 28/06/2021 10:57

@PurpleHoodie

m.youtube.com/watch?v=V2bw2G371y8&feature=youtu.be

For anyone that may have missed it.

This type of open bigotry against someone who has qualified per the rules of the sport to compete, will not play well in NZ. NZ are a fair and open minded country.

If you wish to change criteria, then go to the governing body and change the sport rules. Don't play the sports person just trying to play by the rules. Calling them a man, when they dont identify as or are legally gendered as, is just poor. Bigotry pure and simple.

Posie and her followers do little to help the progression of women and feminism. They are just trying to be regressive and pick on anyway who is different to their narrow definition of biology.

She does the trans cause a lot of good, as she is just so far off kilter to main stream thinking. It perversely helps strengthen anti-segregation and diversity thinking. Every hate sticker up, is an own goal.

Needmoresleep · 28/06/2021 10:58

Ahhh bless

MishyJDI · 28/06/2021 10:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Wallpapering · 28/06/2021 11:01

Slightly envious that live to far away to attend these events. Well done 👏 to all

Id like to think police there as protection not because women gathering with placards they expect them to cause literal violence

DialSquare · 28/06/2021 11:06

How would a genital check point out if someone is a Mumsnetter?

VodkaSlimline · 28/06/2021 11:08

Really great afternoon! Thank you to leaders/organisers if you're on here. The atmosphere was brilliant, especially when 10,000 clubbers with mobile sound systems turned up Grin

SunnyintheSun · 28/06/2021 11:11

Thank you Posie and everyone who attended. Here in NZ there’s huge embarrassment over the situation. We are big on fair play and don’t like cheats.

At the same time, if it peaks a few people, well, consider it our contribution to feminism Wink

DialSquare · 28/06/2021 11:14

It was great to see the support from so many of the rave protesters. I used to go to Danny Rampling's clubs in the late 80s. Brought back some great memories.

Gumbomambo · 28/06/2021 11:17

I loved the ravers joining in the chants and shouting affirmations, especially the couple of guys that pointed out Lauren’s penis. Bloody bigots with their actual eyes. My favourite bit was watching people read the signs and see the sights from the top of the mountain. Class.

OvaHere · 28/06/2021 11:18

Lol Mishy did you actually watch the video?

The women got loads of support from the thousands of people passing by. You have this completely backwards, it's a very niche amount of the general public who think it's fine for men to cheat in women's sport.

The own goal happening here is every time someone goes off to 'educate themselves' and is horrified at what they discover. It's every time a man takes his penis somewhere it's not welcome to the detriment of women. Most people quickly see what is happening and they wake up.

Gumbomambo · 28/06/2021 11:18

Laurel. Bad enough misgendering without misnaming.

WotgunShedding · 28/06/2021 11:20

I think there's merit in saying blame the rules, not the individual players. After all, they are playing by the guidelines, even if I personally think the guidelines aren't fit for purpose.

Photos of competitors neatly illustrate the inherent biological unfairness I think and would be fair to use to show this point but I wouldn't be comfortable with rude name calling. However, pointing out that Hubbard is male and has benefited from male physique, puberty and all the associated advantages wouldn't fall under rude in my opinion - it is crucial in highlighting what the issue is.

PurpleHoodie · 28/06/2021 11:20

Yes Wallpapering.

The footage catches part of a conversation between a police officer, and one of the attendees.
He was giving reassurance that they would not be attacked as the other protest was a dance/party protest and the crowd were in a positive mood.
They stayed to protect them.

They saw that the group of women were obviously not going to be violent. They moved to keep the convoy going.

Later on, you can notice quite a few of the officers "dance/walking". Mainly good interaction between both protest groups so the police just danced on by.

Helmetbymidnight · 28/06/2021 11:25

Brilliant. If there's another one, please let us know. I'd love to have gone.

yourhairiswinterfire · 28/06/2021 11:34

NZ are a fair and open minded country.

Fair? None of this is fair on sportswomen.

If you truly cared so much about fairness, inclusivity and progression, you'd care about how unfair this is for women, you'd care about the women being excluded because of this, and you'd care about how regressive this is for women's sports.

Helmetbymidnight · 28/06/2021 11:42

lovely to see the passers by saying 'i agree with you' and clapping them.

i feel mayas case is making a huge difference psychologically, people feel emboldened to speak up for women.

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 28/06/2021 12:10

Was a wonderful day Smile

Very proud to be there and a part of it - well done Posie, once again!

who do you think you are kidding…

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 28/06/2021 12:13

@yourhairiswinterfire

NZ are a fair and open minded country.

Fair? None of this is fair on sportswomen.

If you truly cared so much about fairness, inclusivity and progression, you'd care about how unfair this is for women, you'd care about the women being excluded because of this, and you'd care about how regressive this is for women's sports.

Absolutely.

Funny how people who are willing to countenance and support the most blatant inequalities and discrimination nevertheless somehow feel entitled to portray themselves as champions of fairness.

Guess what, we’re just not buying it, and never will.

ItsNotNormalLove · 28/06/2021 12:16

I was so glad we were able to attend, a brilliant afternoon. We had to leave before the big protest arrived but we'll be back next time hopefully! Big love to the woman who came to Hyde park on her own and stood up to speak - that was brave and I'm glad she feels like she's found her community.

OldCrone · 28/06/2021 12:21

If you wish to change criteria, then go to the governing body and change the sport rules. Don't play the sports person just trying to play by the rules.

Hubbard has not been forced to compete. Hubbard is as capable as anyone else of saying that the rules give Hubbard an unfair advantage and Hubbard could stand down so that a woman could compete instead.

By accepting a place at the Olympics, Hubbard is part of the problem, so it is perfectly reasonable to criticise Hubbard.

Wallpapering · 28/06/2021 12:34

Admit I have attention span of gnat watching videos but Have watched the full whole video now purplehoodie Now have an ear worm in tune of if you happy and know it.

Just as well couldn’t make it as music, booze, dancing and I’m off partying like I’m still in my 20’s.

@MishyJDI
Posie and her followers do little to help the progression of women and feminism

Please do tell me which women are on list approval that allows them to have opinions also what criteria is.

Like said I have attention of gnat the fact sat watched long video discussion between Posie & Julia gets an applause from me.

Helleofabore · 28/06/2021 13:04

NZ are a fair and open minded country.

Are you from New Zealand then Mishy? Is this like telling an Australian that Australian’s believe in ‘fair go’! Because, we can also assure you that many, many women, including female weightlifters from NZ disagree with including any male in their sports.

So, unless you are from NZ, do not presume to speak for them either. If you are from NZ, then perhaps you can tell us which NZ female weightlifters have supported this move openly?

If you wish to change criteria, then go to the governing body and change the sport rules.

The nature of protests are, I am sure you realize, aimed at showing that there is an issue. It applies pressure on organisations to acknowledge there are issues that need to be resolved.

The OIC is very aware of the issues and has announced they are looking at new solutions. Protests like this show there is a need to consider females in this discussion. The committee that finalized the latest regulations had 4 out of 20 females. Rather shocking in itself.

Even Harper, who wrote the 8 person study used to influence the OIC decision has hesitation about its use now.

Don't play the sports person just trying to play by the rules.

If the sportsperson was at all interested in fairness, instead of their own glory, they would accept that their participation is unfair.

Calling them a man, when they dont identify as or are legally gendered as, is just poor. man = adult human male. Perhaps males who don’t identify as being men should have come up with a new word instead of acquiring the words for females.

Posie and her followers do little to help the progression of women and feminism.

On the contrary. People like KJ force discussion and have worked hard to overcome the lobbyists and small minded people who declared ‘no debate’. And it is small minded to silence people who actually have a right to discuss the negative impacts on their own rights.

They are just trying to be regressive and pick on anyway who is different to their narrow definition of biology.

And as usual, we have someone telling us what we believe in without actually understanding what many of us do believe.

She does the trans cause a lot of good, as she is just so far off kilter to main stream thinking.

I guess you haven’t watched this video or if you have you have chosen to ignore that the overwhelming majority of the other protest joined in.

That is a real life example of just what the majority believes.

It perversely helps strengthen anti-segregation and diversity thinking. Every hate sticker up, is an own goal.

On the contrary. It allows people to understand that they are allowed to ask for segregation when sex matters. It actually allows traumatised women to feel heard and supported.

I have watched this in action and I have listened to traumatised women state clearly why they need single sex spaces. Yesterday in fact.

Not for validation. For them to actually get on with their lives and sometimes, for them to heal from the actions of males. If males need separate spaces away from other males, that is what they should be campaigning for. Luckily some of them are campaigning just for this.

Not riding roughshod over females and their needs. Sports included.

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 28/06/2021 14:03

Well said, Helleofabore.