So, what is 'non gc' feminism?

[ArabellaScott]

Hello, all.

What does feminism that isn't about sex/gender look like?

What subjects does it investigate?

What aims does it have?

Would be good to hear from those who didn't feel able to post before.

I thought biological essentialism is the philosophy that people's hobbies, life goals, personalities, skills and so on were determined by biology, e.g. the idea that girls innately don't like football because they are girls, will like crochet, won't be able.to read a map, and innately are repulsed by careers in STEM.

You're confused and so are the rest of us. Who is supposed to believe in biological essentialism ? GC/ NonGC? As far as I can see nobody but an idiot would believe in the above philosophy, so what does it have to do with this debate?

I don’t believe I am a woman. I am a woman.

@Potteringshed

There is also a miserable irony in the fact that this thread, which I took as originally being an opportunity to suggest some areas of discussion away from the fucking trans thing has now deteriorated into flat out "so what is a woman?"

Yes, quite

The OP asked for non-GC perspectives. Now having given them, let's see, it's self-indulgent rubbish, tripe, something in there about cats, the usual pile on.

It's all deeply tedious. Looking forward to some interesting threads that can give all this a swerve.

Evening.

We've had a fair few reports about this thread now. As the discussion seems to have moved on to be mainly about sex and gender, we're going to transfer it to the appropriate topic.

Thanks everyone.

The OP asked for non-GC perspectives

Anything to do with the sex and gender debate is meant to go in the other topic whether it’s GC or not.

Why didn’t you stick to other topics if sex and gender is low interest?

If you take part in a thread about feminism in the abstract, then I think to be honest you shouldn't be so offended when people ask you who you're centering in your feminism and why. If you can't be bothered or don't find it interesting, don't engage.

And MNHQ were very clear that it was about silo-ing specific questions, not specific viewpoints - unfortunately there's obviously some ambiguity about whether basic analyses of feminism belong on the feminism board, or the Nest of Vipers...

X post

Ha at it being moved

“ Yes and it wasn’t GC feminists who brought it up. ”

It was a GC regular poster who started the thread. And entirely unsurprising where it’s ended up, given it started right in with a barrage of sarcasm and faux disbelief that there could possibly be any way to discuss feminism, or be feminist, without first agreeing with GC dogma.

Give it a rest folks.

If you’re really so fascinated to see what can possibly be discussed with a non GC lens, then watch and wait.

Possibly you’re not really, and actually just want to go on saying trans women are men, and trans is the biggest threat to women everywhere etc etc…. In which case you really do have a perfectly good board,that you’ve been posting on for ages, where the rules haven’t changed….

Hooray. Cross posted with the move notice. Byeeeeeeee!

Most importantly I want a space where I can debate the feminist issues I care most about without having to define what a woman is. Can someone explain to me why this is such a big problem?

How can you talk about feminism when you can't define the group that feminism is for?

Who is feminism for? What group of humans?

@MotherOffCod

“ Yes and it wasn’t GC feminists who brought it up. ”

It was a GC regular poster who started the thread. And entirely unsurprising where it’s ended up, given it started right in with a barrage of sarcasm and faux disbelief that there could possibly be any way to discuss feminism, or be feminist, without first agreeing with GC dogma.

Give it a rest folks.

If you’re really so fascinated to see what can possibly be discussed with a non GC lens, then watch and wait.

Possibly you’re not really, and actually just want to go on saying trans women are men, and trans is the biggest threat to women everywhere etc etc…. In which case you really do have a perfectly good board,that you’ve been posting on for ages, where the rules haven’t changed….

Non GC can’t help but discuss it. Now it’s going to the other board good.

Ha indeed. Apparently "what is feminism?" doesn't belong in Feminism.

@MarshaBradyo

The OP asked for non-GC perspectives

Anything to do with the sex and gender debate is meant to go in the other topic whether it’s GC or not.

Why didn’t you stick to other topics if sex and gender is low interest?

Because of all the faux-disingenuous questions like, but what is feminism that isn't sex-based?

It seemed a good opportunity to explain different feminist perspectives

My mistake, won't do that again.

And with that, I'll leave you all to your 'appropriate topic'

You know what’s nice - this way we won’t have to listen to non GC sex and gender debate because they can’t bear the other board.

I believe feminism can cover all people who identify as women. It's a belief just like the GC belief that feminism should only cover people assigned female at birth with XX chromosomes.

But why call it Feminism? Why take a word that already had meaning and then complain that the people who were already using it don't use it in your new way?

I mean, "taking the Female out of Feminism" - it's a brave position but not a slogan I'd want to stand behind!

I've been lurking on this thread for ages , MotherOffCod. It's been a while, but wasn't it your post that diverted the discussion?

I don't think the OP was disingenuous at all, and I thought some people posted considered responses that helped me understand where they were coming from. In fact, they made me feel more supportive of a board split! I do wish the thread hadn't been sabotaged by people jumping to atttribute bad-faith to the OP.

The OP asked for non-GC perspectives. Now having given them, let's see, it's self-indulgent rubbish, tripe, something in there about cats, the usual pile on.

Funny though how when discussing what 'non GC' feminism is (which is what the thread asked), you've chosen to talk about how you think men can be women.

Rather than choose to discuss all those incredibly important things like the pay gap, VAWG, sexualisation of young girls etc, that you claim to have been interested in and not had a space to talk about on before.

faux disbelief that there could possibly be any way to discuss feminism, or be feminist, without first agreeing that women are oppressed on the basis of their sex

Fixed it for you.

PurgatoryOfPotholes I think some posters are re-defining words to suit themselves, so ‘biological essentialism’ becomes anything anyone wants it to mean, rather than its actual meaning.

The OP asked for non-GC perspectives. Now having given them, let's see, it's self-indulgent rubbish, tripe, something in there about cats, the usual pile on.It's all deeply tedious. Looking forward to some interesting threads that can give all this a swerve.

Post " So what is non GC feminism? " with the expectation that we will all post our definition of it and then you want us to do nothing, just read the posts and nothing more.
No discussion of the merits of the differing definitions? No debate as to their validity?

Good to know. Debate not welcome here.

I believe feminism can cover all people who identify as women. It's a belief just like the GC belief that feminism should only cover people assigned female at birth with XX chromosomes.

A mumsnetter who has recently been featured in a newspaper article and given evidence to WESC in parliament has been targeted this week with death threats and abuse on twitter. A transwoman told her to "choke on my girlcock".

What lens of feminism do we view this through? What's the axis of oppression here? Is there one?

Does your view of feminism see this as just a woman being mean to another woman on the internet or is it more serious than that?

@Stopthisnow

PurgatoryOfPotholes I think some posters are re-defining words to suit themselves, so ‘biological essentialism’ becomes anything anyone wants it to mean, rather than its actual meaning.

Great. Another set of words I now have to ask for clarification when I see them used.

I feel so frustrated right now. That was my phrase for when I didn't want to write 250 words on why I supported Let Toys Be Toys!

Good to know. Debate not welcome here.

Yeah, I think that's kind of the point.

@deathbypostitnote

Good to know. Debate not welcome here.

Yeah, I think that's kind of the point.

Well you’re in Sex and gender debate now due to discussing it. So either do it in right place or not at all.

@MotherOffCod

Hooray. Cross posted with the move notice. Byeeeeeeee!

How sisterly.