Are you embarrased if your existing thread has been left on feminist chat as it marks you out an acceptable feminist!

[stumbledin]

Isn't it a bit embarrassing to find your thread has been left in this tiny empty space?

Isn't it embarrassing to start a thread in this tiny empty space because you are saying you want to talk about women's issues but without any reference to sex or gender.

So what is a woman, if she isn't a biological sex or a social construct, is just a projection of other people's assumptions.

I'm not really sure why you think anyone should be embarrassed, but I am a bit amused by how many threads - recent threads - there are on this board given that apparently we never talk about anything other than trans people and every thread about something else gets completely ignored etc etc. Yet there seem to mysteriously be loads of well engaged with threads left on this board, almost as if that accusation was completely unfounded. Will our critics be back to eat humble pie and engage with these many many discussions as has been suggested to them already? Not holding my breath personally.

Yet there seem to mysteriously be loads of well engaged with threads left on this board, almost as if that accusation was completely unfounded.

Indeed.

Well done for stating the effing obvious. They were always there. So why was everybody whinging.

Most of us lead well round lives. We dont have split ourselves off and say this part of my live doesn't touch this.

It makes mumsnet look ridiculous.

It makes mumsnet look ridiculous.

Agreed, and after all the TRAs who monitor Mumsnet are not suddenly going to stop monitoring and reporting posts. The businesses that are reluctant to work with Mumsnet because it allows some debate are not going to go change their minds because the debate has been relabelled sex and gender discussion.

I do feel sorry for the poor bugger who's going to be moving threads between the two forums.

I can imagine that some threads might travel more than once between the forums. Do we have some guidelines as to what threads are valid in each area? Does a thread have to be quickly ejected if someone mutters some magic key words like female, male, sex, gender and whatknow???

It's going to get really busy in here soon anyway, as the 1000s of users who didn't post before because they didn't like the threads about (thing we don't mention) are going to unhide this board and get posting!
So your threads will quickly get moved down the board by all the new ones.

Well mumsnet needs to make an announcement as those 1000s of users won't know because they have hidden the board!

I think they'll know though, because they all knew to email Mumsnet when this was suggested.

I think you’re being a bit silly, and embarrassing yourself more than anyone could possibly be doing by posting a thread in this section. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I don’t get all this fury and entitlement over MN making a decision about how they organise their forum. They’re a business, not a public service, and they’ll take the decisions they feel they need to, in order to balance the conflicting wants of all their users. You don’t have to like it or agree with it, and are presumably free to take your ‘business’ elsewhere if you feel strongly enough about it.

I have learned a lot from reading the threads on gender, and will continue to read them in the new subsection of FWR, but I think all this drama about it is unnecessary and childish.

It also makes no sense. I see a good portion of the threads left behind reference only one type of 'woman' e.g. the "women's rights in childbirth" thread.
Not very 'inclusive', is it to assume childbirth has anything to do with women?
You can't separate sex-related issues from feminism. It makes no sense and all you're left with is a big muddle.

@DrinkingWishingSmokingHoping

I think you’re being a bit silly, and embarrassing yourself more than anyone could possibly be doing by posting a thread in this section. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I don’t get all this fury and entitlement over MN making a decision about how they organise their forum. They’re a business, not a public service, and they’ll take the decisions they feel they need to, in order to balance the conflicting wants of all their users. You don’t have to like it or agree with it, and are presumably free to take your ‘business’ elsewhere if you feel strongly enough about it.

I have learned a lot from reading the threads on gender, and will continue to read them in the new subsection of FWR, but I think all this drama about it is unnecessary and childish.

Oh please. It's not childish to have an opinion about sex and gender on the feminism board. How bloody patronising.

Having an opinion about it isn’t the part I find childish, @OldTurtleNewShell, it’s the foot stamping insistence haranguing of MN because you (not you personally) don’t like their decision, and silly thread titles like this. I also find it a bit disingenuous to refuse to see that MN is trying balance the needs of feminists who consider gender/trans issues to be the only thing worth discussing about feminism, with the needs of other feminists/users who are fed up to the back teeth with that being pretty much the sole topic of the FWR section.

I’m not trying to patronise anyone, just responding to a rather silly thread title, in light of all the dramatic threads/posts about the creation of the new section.

*rogue ‘insistence’ in there - got distracted mid-sentence.

Feminism is about all aspects of women's sex based rights. You cant put them in boxes.

The problem is that MNHQ seems to have given in to a tiny minority who cant cope with the fact they are a tiny minority, who cant even be bothered to post on threads that aren't directly about trans vxs women's rights, and then moan that they are alienated.

Life the thread on here about women's sport. It is clear it is about the fact that women are of the female sex. How on earth does it help to discuss this issue but not be allowed to talk about that.

And just about every other thread.

How can you discuss issues that arise because of the lack of women's sex based rights, but then say you cant talk about sex or gender.

Because if you are saying the discrimination women face is not connected to the sex they are born but that somehow accidently all the issues of discrimination women face because of their sex, isn't for that reason, then you are saying it is women's own fault they are disciminated against.

In which case why are you on a feminist board?

Also, all the more bizarre for MNHQ to do this at a time when it has been stated in a court that we have a right to talk about our sex based rights.

And what does MNHQ do? Instantly ban all talk about sex on what was the main forum for feminism on MNHQ!

Plus the obvious benefits to Those Who Monitor Us.

One of whom has been crowing all day about how much easier it is to find us, big arrow pointing to the Terven!

They seek us here, they seek us there, these seekers seek us everywhere… 👀

I admit my thread title was a bit tongue in cheek but from some of the threads am actually wondering if (as in the thread why has feminist died out) some women are embarrased to be "feminist". Like the sports thread, talk about talking round the issue.

I did suggest that maybe we needed an equality thread, so all those who want to talk about "rights" and "equality" could do so without having to ever be tarnished with the tag feminism.

So evenif MNHQ had a genius plan to have a "putting your toe in the water" feminist thread, where would it lead to. How would they ever take the plunge to move over to the sex and gender rights thread and get to grips with the politics and the reality of what is going on in the world.

Feminism Chat board illustrates how not to join up the dots - or even Feminism Chat board to trap those slightly peturbed about men and women being treated differently never ever finding out there is a link underlying the different treatment of men and women - and that is that one sex class oppresses another sex class.

there seem to mysteriously be loads of well engaged with threads left on this board, almost as if that accusation was completely unfounded

it's quite noticeable innit? looking forward to all that discussion of feminism which doesn't touch at all on sex and gender

I know you were trying to be tongue in cheek but I think there is no benefit in being rude to people posting on this board. I am pleased by anything anyone does that helps redress sexism and I think being nasty to people is only going to discourage it.

@WorkingItOutAsIGo

I know you were trying to be tongue in cheek but I think there is no benefit in being rude to people posting on this board. I am pleased by anything anyone does that helps redress sexism and I think being nasty to people is only going to discourage it.

Redress sexism?

How does choosing to call a new sub forum Sex and Gender Debate when all of the women posting there don't want to talk about gender, they want to talk about the erosion of womens rights?

That gender ideology is currently an almost invisible and highly sexist, misogynist development that has captured so many orgnisations, from governments to the IoC, local leisure centres to infant schools and on is the most pressing issue affecting women's rights at the moment.

It has been for over a decade yet had managed to remain way below the consciousness of so many people. Obfiscation, mangling of words, regulatory capture etc, that's why it is so important that we can discuss the issue openly, wothout being shut down al the time.

Nasty is not asking to be heard without having to triple check the words you are using for fear of being targetted and deleted

Nasty is having women arrested for stating bioloicall facts

Nasty is putting men into the women's estate, and then being 'surprised' when the obvious happens

Nasty is targetting MNHQ and demanding that women are hustled off to the sidelines.

Nasty is targetting MNHQs advertising revenue

Nasty is posting on Twitter etc that now The Treven can be more easily found

Nasty is monitoring the now more easily found threads and reporting women who want to discuss women's rights

Tongue in cheek is, it seems, the best we can do, if we don't want to be deleted and/or banned!

Maybe I mistitled this thread and should have used the word smug instead of embarrassed. Why would you want to be associated with ghettoising the core issue for feminism which is women's sex based rights. (ie there is no debate - nobody caes about gender - it is an artificial construct)

Well, well, well - this is devious.

This thread was created on the feminism chat board, as obviously the quesiton is directed here.

So in an underhand move MNHQ have moved it to FWR thread.

That's a bit like someone taking part in a political campaign and they move all your campaigning literature to the venue of another event.

I dont know which is worse. That they can actually do something deliberating stopping a discussion in the appropriate place or they actually think they are making sense.

Maybe I should start a thread asking mumsnet if they are embarrased to be making themselves look so idiotic.

Jellybeans I know and understand and believe all that you have written. I have been on FWR for eons. I just wanted to say that abusing people who support your cause for not being as strong in their beliefs as you are isn’t the best way to win hearts and minds. We’ve seen how it backfired for the Labour Party recently.

I've already hidden three threads on the other board which have disintegrated into ha ha lolz/ hostility to the effect of 'time you lot were shut up'. Which rather throws doubt on the whole 'we just want to talk about feminism' thing, but whatever.

I suppose we'll see whether the other board gets going or peters out when there aren't GC feminists providing material to moan about.

@WorkingItOutAsIGo

Jellybeans I know and understand and believe all that you have written. I have been on FWR for eons. I just wanted to say that abusing people who support your cause for not being as strong in their beliefs as you are isn’t the best way to win hearts and minds. We’ve seen how it backfired for the Labour Party recently.

Me? Where have I abused anyone?

Or do you mean that a woman being sarcastic is so much worse than anything on the list I posted? Is it the strength of belief that is the issue or just the fact that women insist on posting about it?

From here it seems to me that you just posted "Women, be nice!"