Toilets in Glasgow pub (Mono)

[Undersnatch]

Went here last night for the first time since covid and the toilets are now signed ‘gender neutral with urinals’ and ‘gender neutral with enclosed cubicles’. I chose the latter, someone already in, and felt totally vulnerable and uncomfortable, waited in loo before I heard them leave before I came out, felt a little ridiculous but the anxiety was there. Is this really what anyone wants? Unisex toilet provision? Surely when people are pissed they will do what they like, opposite sex couples go to loo together etc, as well as the (presumably) intended provision for trans people. Afterwards DH agreed he didn’t like the feeling that a woman could come in while he was exposed either.

I was in a pub a while ago, and the toilets were 'gender neutral'. It was a closed room with three stalls. I was in one of the stalls when a drunk guy wandered in and hammered on the door and jostled on the latch. I nervously said something like 'hello?' what do you want?' and then he began to chat me up from behind the door! "You've got a nice voice, why are you here" etc. And I was utterly terrified. I was immediately standing up, heart thumping, thinking this guy was going to break in and then...what could I do? And all I could think was 'please go away, just go away'. And the bloody female socialisation kicks in, so I began playing along and chatting just hoping he would be distracted. Eventually I heard him walk off to the next toilet, and I bolted out not even pausing to wash my hands (don't worry, I sanitised.) So yes, I do think the risks are higher. If I was in a female toilet, it is FAR less likely that I would encounter a man.

I find this very odd considering the government is supposedly in the process of rewriting planning rules to require single sex toilets in public buildings. Establishments which have gender neutral facilities will be required to put up partitions to divide them into individual self contained cubicles.

@Orf1abc

Presumably the toilet with urinals will also have at least one cubicle in as well? It would be very unusual for them not to.

Your anxiety is irrational. If someone wants to do you harm, they'll do so whatever label is on the door. That is only the tiniest minority of people.

You'll be fine in a gender neutral loo. Don't sweat the small stuff.

Well, if the 'if someone wants to do you harm' bit is completely true then why can't all the transwomen use the mens toilets complete with urinals for all those 'lady dicks' & leave the real women in peace?

After all, if someone is going to do them harm they'll do so anyway according to you.

Surely they can't have urinals in a mixed toilet. It's indecent exposure. If they want to mix toilets then the urinals have to be put out of action or are all their male customers already on the Sex Offenders Register?

Your anxiety is irrational. If someone wants to do you harm, they'll do so whatever label is on the door. That is only the tiniest minority of people.

You sound clueless. Typical trans activist response to women's valid concerns around safety. Utterly fucking clueless.

You sound clueless. Typical trans activist response to women's valid concerns around safety. Utterly fucking clueless

Mixed sex toilets are how we know its not about safety. How can it be when the sake men who would be beating them up on the mens will still be in the Mixed ones.

I dont know why people keep falling for the lie tbh. Mixed sex toilets do not benefit women at all.

Don't sweat the small stuff.

Everyone remember to save that for the next person insisting on opposite-sex pronouns.

@WeeBisom

I was in a pub a while ago, and the toilets were 'gender neutral'. It was a closed room with three stalls. I was in one of the stalls when a drunk guy wandered in and hammered on the door and jostled on the latch. I nervously said something like 'hello?' what do you want?' and then he began to chat me up from behind the door! "You've got a nice voice, why are you here" etc. And I was utterly terrified. I was immediately standing up, heart thumping, thinking this guy was going to break in and then...what could I do? And all I could think was 'please go away, just go away'. And the bloody female socialisation kicks in, so I began playing along and chatting just hoping he would be distracted. Eventually I heard him walk off to the next toilet, and I bolted out not even pausing to wash my hands (don't worry, I sanitised.) So yes, I do think the risks are higher. If I was in a female toilet, it is FAR less likely that I would encounter a man.

I hope that you complained.

DdraigGoch
I had something similar at my gym, and the toilets weren't even mixed sex, but the men would go in the women's to fill their water bottles up. I had a man who had been following me around the gym staring at me, who stood over me while I washed my face in the women's toilets and then blocked my way as I tried to get out. And so let me get this straight, the logic from the TRA's is that, because this has happened to me in a female only space, rather than trying to find a way to make female only spaces safer, we should make all spaces where women are vulnerable less safe, because women get perved on, spy cammed, intimidated, indecently exposed and raped anyway, so may as well remove all barriers?! God, they REALLY hate women, don't they.

Don't have an issue per se with mixed sex as long as there's floor to ceiling cubicles with sink inside. There should be no urinals because they are only for me and means they are not gender neutral!

I'm a small restaurant it makes sense, two fully enclosed cubicles but in a busy pub this doesn't make sense because they are not gender neutral, they are skewed towards men!

That's why the answer is always to take away never to add.

No ones interested in added trans specialised gym or swim classes

Or even calling up fir men only ones.

There are just complaints that there are women only ones and they must be inclusive to anyone but women or cancelled.

@NecessaryScene

Don't sweat the small stuff.

Everyone remember to save that for the next person insisting on opposite-sex pronouns.

Well, that won’t work since the rules of the game seem to be “Everything you’re concerned about is trivial, irrelevant, inaccurate and just a smokescreen for bigotry, while everything we’re concerned about is a matter of life and death.”

Please don't tell me my anxiety about this is irrational.. eugh I spent what felt like almost every day of my late teens and twenties being chatted up or bothered by men in some way. Comments, always with the comments, often leading to unwanted interactions, following, physical contact. The pub and club loos were a socially unacceptable place for these annoying men to follow me and female pals into, without having to 'make it a big thing' and involve staff members. A line was drawn at the door. I think I'd have been in a perpetual state of anxiety if toilets were mixed sex in those days. Add alcohol and the entitlement some men have.. if /when this becomes the norm it will be horrendous for teenage girls on nights out.

if someone is going to do them harm they'll do so anyway
So we may as well lie on the ground naked and say come and get me then.
You do realise some crimes are opportunistic rather than planned.
@Undersnatch @ItsAllGoingToBeFine please write to the management with your concerns and/or that you’re voting with your feet

Aw, no, not Mono.

please write to the management with your concerns and/or that you’re voting with your feet

It was interesting to hear in an interview that our beloved Arty Morty started to get peaked by women telling him about their dislike of his bar's mixed-sex toilets.

This stuff works!

Thanks for the support everyone(ish). I know it shouldn’t, but my fear did make me feel a bit ridiculous so it’s always good to have the odd helpful poster there to add to those feelings. I’ve just sent an email - thanks for that comment Necessaryscene - helpful to think that it could make people think instead of being dismissed like I expect. I’m not hopeful though I have to say! It is interesting to see the internalised ‘you’re irrational so wheesht’ going on for me. I’d love to speak up at work but have the total fear so this is a step forward personally, thanks to you all.

Mono is a trendy vegan cafe. I shouldn't be surprised. I'm just sad. There is no way on earth I would go somewhere with gender neutral toilets, especially not as I usually have young kids in tow, and I am not having them in a toilet that is likely to include adult men. It was my go-to Glasgow eating place.